Why I'm Against Organic (read all the way through before you flame)

[FluffyColor]

Quote:
In a broader sense, organic means "from an organism" e.g. it is or once was a living thing. In gardening sense, it means that the fertilizers used were once living things: animal waste derived from herbivores = grass. This is in contrast to chemical fertilizers that became popular in the early 1900s.

well, I personally don't want poo on my food. The idea grosses me out

, but I don't like those nasty chemicals...
What if the residue remains??

 

[michickenwrangler]

You're supposed to wash food before you eat it no matter what kind of fertilizer you're using

 

[Marshmallow Man]

Quote:
Unfortunately, when you start a conversation with conflicted arguments, rampant fallacies and an elementary (at best) understanding of the industry at hand continuing it in an educated manner becomes very difficult.

Thank you, I never claimed to be an expert in this area, I'm just an opinionated high school kid with an interest in small scale agriculture. I have done my best to make sure that all the information in the post was accurate and correct but you are probably right, there most likely are untrue statements. Perhaps you could use this opportunity to correct me so that in the future I can form an opinion more accurately with more relevant information and facts.

Your doing quite well for a High School kid. You handled that return volley very well.

 

[debilorrah]

So called "organic" IS very misleading to the masses. I don't try to search out organic foods, just local ones.

ETA: There are 27 allowed and allowable pesticides and poisons that organic farmers are allowed to use. You can find it on the FDA's website. Here, local farmers are more likely to NOT use pesticides than most because of our extremely dry climate (alot of pests don't survive here). As an example, cockroaches, fleas, ticks are rare around here. Tomato horn worms are non-existent. The biggest pests here are birds. A net takes care of that.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
That's the type of misinformation that I seen thrown around all the time. That is not correct. From the CFR:

205.237 Livestock feed.

(a) The producer of an organic livestock operation must provide livestock with a total feed ration composed of agricultural products, including pasture and forage, that are organically produced and handled by operations certified to the NOP, except as provided in §205.236(a)(2)(i), (see below) except, that, synthetic substances allowed under §205.603 and nonsynthetic substances not prohibited under §205.604 may be used as feed additives and feed supplements, Provided, That, all agricultural ingredients included in the ingredients list, for such additives and supplements, shall have been produced and handled organically.


205.236 Origin of livestock.

(a) Livestock products that are to be sold, labeled, or represented as organic must be from livestock under continuous organic management from the last third of gestation or hatching: Except, That:

(1) Poultry. Poultry or edible poultry products must be from poultry that has been under continuous organic management beginning no later than the second day of life;

(2) Dairy animals. Milk or milk products must be from animals that have been under continuous organic management beginning no later than 1 year prior to the production of the milk or milk products that are to be sold, labeled, or represented as organic, Except,

(i) That, crops and forage from land, included in the organic system plan of a dairy farm, that is in the third year of organic management may be consumed by the dairy animals of the farm during the 12-month period immediately prior to the sale of organic milk and milk products

 

[Rozzie]

x

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Quote:
well, I personally don't want poo on my food. The idea grosses me out

, but I don't like those nasty chemicals...
What if the residue remains??

You ARE aware that sewage sludge is used to fertilize many fields, right? Once the sewage goes through the treatment facility, the liquids are typically dumped in the rivers, and the treated solids (once treated it is called biosolids) are available for use as fertilizer for fields.

According to the EPA about half of all sewage sludge is applied to fields in this manner. This is done in all 50 states. About 1% of agricultural land is fertilized with treated sludge.

By the way, this includes use on fruit & vegetable crops & it is even legal for the sludge to be sold for use on home gardens.

Hehe, the last cabin I lived in didn't have running water, therefore no toilet. If I hadn't ended up moving, my plan was to get a composting toilet and use the resultant "humanure" to grow certain fruits and veggies. (Tomatoes, peppers....couldn't quite bring myself to eat lettuce and such that was grown in it for some reason.)

After a while, dirt is just dirt. Microbes break it all down. Any good soil is made out of formerly living organisms, which means that it either died and decomposed, or was pooped out and decomposed.

Anyway, I wish MORE waste was effectively processed and put back into the soil. Without that key step, you can not "close the loop" and the soil will continue to be depleted of nutrients, which means the ONLY way to get them will be via chemical fertilization.

I prefer my food being grown in poo any day.

 

[redhen]

Yum.. e-coli outbreaks! Always yummy on your salad!!

 

[welsummerchicks]

I think that when a lot of chemicals and pesticides are used generally, they get in the water and soil, and air. I'm not really 100% sure that practically speaking, even an organic farmer that manages his own little plot organically, can produce a product that is free of all those things. Because they are everywhere. Say his neighbor sprays his corn, some of that is going to drift over on to the 'organically managed' land.

I'm not sure if you really tested organic vs standard products, how different they really would be as far as pesticide levels. I'm just not sure, I will try to learn about it, perhaps there is some independent, juried, reviewed research out there.

I am in favor of 'organic' in general. But for someone getting started or without enough land to grow their own grains, it's awful difficult to get organic certification. I did notice that the organic chicken feed costs 3 or 4 times what the regular feed costs. My feed store where I usually go, has only medicated chick feed, and it's non organic. If I want organic feed, I have to drive a long way (again, good for environment?).

I did notice that the feed store recommended medicated chick feed be fed for several MONTHS, to chicks from commercial hatcheries, because they simply do get exposed to diseases in hatcheries. I don't have any chickens when I get started, so a commercial hatchery is really one of the few choices I have.

I did notice there is no organic electrolyte mix available, if I want to feed the chicks a formulated electrolyte, it is a standard, not an organic product. What about disease? Do I have to use an 'organic' vaccine or treatment? Or does feeding an 'organic feed' guarantee my chicks will never get sick (I don't think it does)?

I am not sure that ignoring sludge and other not so pretty sources of nitrogen, really is sound environmentally. I think it is better if as much as possible of that stuff is utilized. Perhaps waste plants could process it more or differently, so that it was a more appealing product, but I do think using it is better than draining it unused, eventually into the ocean.

 

[michickenwrangler]

You will NEVER find organic electrolytes. Minerals, by definition are non-organic since they contain no carbon. Potassium, phosphorus, sodium, etc... are pure elements. They are not grown, only mined. Remember back to high school chemistry ...