Why I'm Against Organic (read all the way through before you flame)

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
I covered that one...

No two people see to entirely agree as to what 'organic' means. Some folks seem to think anything that is powdered and comes in a package from a feed store is 'not organic', anything that comes from a health food store is 'organic'.

That was the whole point of the USDA National Organic Program, to set minimum standards for organic production, so that the consumer had some sort of idea what they were getting. Before the national standard was implemented, it was standards set up by various states or interest groups or the word of the person you were buying from.

One lady told me if I fed my chicks medicated feed to prevent salmonella(something the vet recommended), that meant they weren't 'organic' and she wouldn't buy my eggs, for example, as giving any medication is 'not organic'. Another told me she would not buy my eggs because my chickens had been vaccinated at birth against a serious disease, something the vet also strongly recommended.

The only thing medicated starter feed contains is Amprolium. It is an antimicrobial agent that help to fend off coccidiosis. It does not guard against salmonella or anything else. It IS NOT allowed under the organic standards. Vaccines are not medications, as they are live biologicals (read that as all natural), they are allowed in organic production.

For some people, it also means management practices like animals spending all or most time pastured, not feeding certain grains(even if organic), not feeding urea, tankage, not feeding any animal products, or any byproducts of the food industry. Everyone has a somewhat different idea of exactly what 'organic' means, what they exclude or include as 'organic'.

Once again that is the whole point of the USDA National Organic Program. To get everybody on the same page, and avoid confusing the consumer.

Most people around here who sell eggs, don't even seem to TRY for the 'certified organic' label/certification unless (ironically) they have a fairly big commercial operation going. They can get that designation while doing a lot of things that most people wouldn't associate with the word 'organic'.

Why would they? If they are small enough to know all of their customers, their customers can decide. Most of my eggs are sold in grocery stores. The consumer doesn't get a chance to meet me or see my operation, but the USDA Certified Organic label tells them that somebody has come and looked at my operation and saw that it met the national standards, vs. some arbitrary "organic" labeling that could mean one thing or another.​

 

[greathorse]

Mac one day you will learn that unless your flock is less than 50 birds or some othe arbitrary number you are a large factory farm whether you are certified organic or not. You will also learn that each person on here gets to make up their own mine (not what meets their personal standard) but the standard for organic in general. You will also discover that if you don't raise your birds within some mystical number of miles from your customers that you are not a local producer and that too makes you one of the bad guys.

You will also learn that though you are well versed in the organic standard and can quote it and post it, you really dont grasp that it is simply a marketing schemed designed to rip off the unsuspecting consumer. Heaven forbid you should make a commercial operation of organic production that in fact allows it to have some sustainability for those folks that cant raise their own food.

Stick around and you can learn from those that have no experience and no real information but make up thier own minds about what is not only good for them but others as well.

Tongue well planted in cheek and thanks for coming back to the board with some real information

 

[krcote]

Quote:

 

[Boudicea Farms]

The true meaning of organic is to plant the seed and walk away, if you weed or water then is it truly organic? Organic means with out the intervention of man's influence, Also alot of organic farmers do use insect and weed control without them there would not be a lot left to harvest. They use what is considered natural alternatives which may or may not have the same risks as manmade. There is a lot of controversy over organic vs commercial. Penn and Teller did an investigation on their show Drat! that was very informative. I think it is another one of those marketing schemes that caught on, go to any grocery store and see, if organic is listed on the label be prepare to spend double what a similar non organic item costs. Personally in todays economic times I can hardly afford to spend the amount of money organic costs.

 

[greathorse]

READ THE ORGANIC REGULATIONS!!!! That identifies the organic growing pracitces that allow growers to sell under the organic label. There is no longer a bunch of unknown movable protocol. You and others can identify the meaning to your hearts content, but for the sake of defining to the consumers what it is there is no longer a mystery and not Planting and walking away is no where close to the defintion of organic, has nothing to do with it for that matter.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
Yes, I've noticed that. The term "farmer" here has been used very loosely. Much of the produce at the "farmer's" market doesn't come from farms, per se, but from hobbyists. I grew up in Southwest Wisconsin where there is a preponderance of family farms. To me, farms are commercial entities that are supposed make a profit. A farmer is a business owner. Subsistence farming was never really part of the landscape here. Many times when people think of "the old days" they think that everybody was a poor subsistence farmer, just scraping by working in the dirt. That is hardly so.

My mother's great-great grandfather came here from Germany in the 1840's. He was a poor sheep herder in the old country. He worked on a farm in Milwaukee for 10 years, saving every last dime he earned for those ten years, and learning about how to run a farm, so he could one day have land of his own to farm. He finally bought 80 acres of land in Southwest Wisconsin and built a log cabin there by hand. He built up a small empire before he died. When he died in the 1880's he had 800 acres to his name and the log cabin had long been replaced by a two story brick home. Poor farmer? No, agriculturalist.

Family farms here are hundreds of acres of pastures, hayfields, cropland, and woodlands with many outbuildings and large machinery to support it. Many of them are structured as Limited Liability Corporations to protect the family should the business go bust. To the outsider these may look like "factory farms", but it can take a lot of farming to make enough profit to support a family.

 

[greathorse]

Quote:
So organic and its value is defined by whether or not you can afford it? Makes perfect sense to me

 

[Mac in Wisco]

For those that are still confused about what "Organic production" is and isn't please visit the USDA website and read to your heart's content. The use of the term Organic is now regulated in the United States and has been for 20 years. Whether you are buying products purported to be organic from your neighbor, from a local farm, at a farmers' market, or at the grocery store, to use the term "Organic" a producer must follow follow the regulations as set forth by the US Dept of Agriculture.

People can poke all kinds of holes in this grand scheme, but for the most part it is an excellent program that adheres well to the traditional philosophies of organic production that have been around for many decades.


http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/nop

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Yes, I've noticed that. The term "farmer" here has been used very loosely. Much of the produce at the "farmer's" market doesn't come from farms, per se, but from hobbyists. I grew up in Southwest Wisconsin where there is a preponderance of family farms. To me, farms are commercial entities that are supposed make a profit. A farmer is a business owner. Subsistence farming was never really part of the landscape here. Many times when people think of "the old days" they think that everybody was a poor subsistence farmer, just scraping by working in the dirt. That is hardly so.

My mother's great-great grandfather came here from Germany in the 1840's. He was a poor sheep herder in the old country. He worked on a farm in Milwaukee for 10 years, saving every last dime he earned for those ten years, and learning about how to run a farm, so he could one day have land of his own to farm. He finally bought 80 acres of land in Southwest Wisconsin and built a log cabin there by hand. He built up a small empire before he died. When he died in the 1880's he had 800 acres to his name and the log cabin had long been replaced by a two story brick home. Poor farmer? No, agriculturalist.

Family farms here are hundreds of acres of pastures, hayfields, cropland, and woodlands with many outbuildings and large machinery to support it. Many of them are structured as Limited Liability Corporations to protect the family should the business go bust. To the outsider these may look like "factory farms", but it can take a lot of farming to make enough profit to support a family.

Someone else who actually knows what a farm and a farmer are!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mac in Wisco]

From the USDA website:

What is organic food?

Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.