Why Organic?

[valmom]

I love this board.

We feed organic layer pellets that are made in our state- relatively local and not Cargill. It is a bit more expensive than non-organic. Our horses eat a locally made grain (not organic).

We would like to grow more of our own veggies so we know where they come from, but so far we've only done squash, tomatoes and corn (that the neighbor's pony decimated) and peppers. But, we buy locally. We know the fields our food comes from. We know the owners. It just makes sense to us to eat locally wherever possible.

Wherever possible we don't eat processed foods to avoid GM corn and oils. No HFCS or hydrogenated fats (that in itself cuts out an awful lot of the supermarket).

We made these choices because we feel better about what we are putting in our bodies and our animals, and we do not want to support big agri-corporations. Some of it is unavoidable, but we don't have to like the corporate attitude.

 

[seedcorn]

I have no problem w/ORGANIC food/feeds. I even agree with most people (why I grow my own garden produce) but I would suggest that the "organic" feed you buy is made of non-organic corn.

We feed about 30X more "organic" corn than is even raised in America....... Plus most of the "organic" corn is not (by the organic board's own rules) even organic.

Organic as it exists now is just hype on grain....sorry but true.

For an example, there are over 500,000 bu of "organic corn" fed to "organic" chickens for "organic" eggs that are fed in NE Indiana. The shipped out east with fancy packaging for the market. There may be 200 A of organic corn that has more weeds than anything in them. But yet these 200 A are doing over 500 bu/acre (normal yields in this area are 150-200 bu/acre with best genetics/management. Explain that one....

Don't get me started on "free range"......

 

[kstaven]

You may be correct in some ways concerning the corn in feed. Thanks to a watering down of the standard in the US there is a higher percentage of non organic ingredients allowed in organic labelled feed. That is sad to say the least. Personally I feel it is organic or isn't, not kinda sorta maybe organic.

One of the many reasons US animal feeds are banned in Canada.

 

[valmom]

Vermont, at least, has a huge movement towards sustainable (possibly not organic) growing, non-GMO, locally grown, and organic farming. And, the state is small enough that I have a fair amount of confidence in local products.

I don't actually believe the "organic" food in the supermarket is really organic. In our local food co-op it probably is. We have a huge organic veggie farm down the road from us that is really organic, not governmentally defined organic. And I know what goes into our own veggies.

 

[SeaChick]

Valmom-

That's how it is in Maine, too. I trust a local farmer telling me he hasn't used antibiotics on his herd in 6 years and feeds only non-GMO, no-pesticide grain, or a small local farmer who isn't "certified organic" but with whom I've had a 15-minute discussion about their convictions about sustainable and organic practices... much more than I trust the "organic" food in the supermarket. That said, I'll still buy organic-labeled stuff there over the regular, since it's likely to be at least somewhat better for us.

Personally, I DON'T believe that this "Organic" thing is a fad and will just go away. The acceptance and demand for it on a middle-America level (re: Wal-Mart and BJ's Wholesale selling "organic" stuff) tells me that people are getting MORE, not less, concerned about their food and their environment. OF COURSE it's a crying shame that big industrial agriculture is bending the "organic" rules and making that label mean less, but I'd rather see the general interest than none at all. Hopefully it will work itself out, and even if the federal label continues to mean nothing, the general interest also means people are going to be more and more interested in where there food comes from, which means more people will start to think about and learn about eating and buying locally, and supporting local farmers... which will support sustainable farming and REAL organic practices. I already see lots of articles about these issues popping up in mainstream magazines like Cooking Light, and mainstream newspapers. In the long run, I believe that we'll all be a better off. Let's hope, anyway!

Stacey

 

[seedcorn]

Interesting discussion for me since I'm in Ag.

1) If the Ag industry went organic, average yields would be reduced by 50% easily and some years (like this one 70%). So if your food bill is $100/wk, would you pay $250 and not say a word or demand Congress look into the food industry?

2) Eggs raised organically w/no use of antibiotics the price would easily triple, again would you eagerly pay the price? Same w/pork and poultry meat.

3) Corn is now $3.80 per 56#, the price would go to $8/56#, no problem, correct?

Before you try to switch an industry, ask yourself, can I pay the price?

 

[SeaChick]

seedcorn-

We already DO pay more for organic, sustainably-grown food, so obviously we think its worth it.

We paid about $5.00/# trimmed for a quarter of a grass-fed cow, that's averaged between hamburg and filet mignon so not bad at all. We put it in a freezer we got for $25 on craigslist. Same with a quarter hog, about $5.50/#. We raise our own eggs, so we're paying less than grocery store plus we have fun pets, and we pay a bit more for local organic produce. But it actually evens out since we are eating what's seasonally available, which is always cheaper than just buying fancy stuff off-season at the regular grocery store anyway. And we're not paying for all the petroleum used to deliver out-of-season produce from half-way around the world (except bananas, can't live without those!)

If the majority of growers switched to sustainable methods, costs would drop significantly. They already are around here, where local organic stuff is becoming increasingly popular.

Let's not even get started on how much of what you pay for big-industrial-ag produce is a hidden cost, you're paying with your TAX DOLLARS: huge enormous subsidies not to small local struggling farmers, but to enormous industrial farm corporations. I am still paying that with my taxes, even though I'm not eating the produce, so my personal costs are even higher than they seem.

Still----- it is TOTALLY worth it to us, for our own personal health, the health of our country's precious soil/environment, and the success of local farmers and local economy. I believe many more Americans, increasingly, feel the same way

Happy holidays~


Stacey

 

[seedcorn]

If the majority of growers switched to sustainable methods, costs would drop significantly. They already are around here, where local organic stuff is becoming increasingly popular.


& who told you this? On that they are dead wrong. It's OK to do on very small acres or small livestock farms but if ag went that way today, commodity prices would go up 2X or 3X.

That small farmer who sells pork for $5/lb w/processing is not making enough money to stay in business. Do the math, if he lives on $50,000/year how many hogs does he have to raise?

Start w/200# hog that processes out to 140# of meat.

140 X $5 is $700 per hog.
$300 plus is processing.
$50 to buy a 40# pig.
land, equip, feed is 2/3 of price of pig 2/3 X $400 is $260.
If he's lucky he will clear $80 at $5 so at these prices for $50,000 salary with government taking 33% he has to make $70,000+. 70,000/80 means he has to raise/sell over 900 head a year at those prices.

NO ONE in IN, IL, Iowa or midwest is paying $5 for pork.

ps..after reading this, I sound cranky, I'm not it's just that people don't understand the economics of ag. We in Ag can't live like Little House on the Praire. We want electicity, cars, etc just like our city brethren have. Plus it would be nice if the average American Farmer didn't have to force his wife to work off of the farm so he has some health insurance.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
kstaven:

Have you worked with Ag Canada in Ottawa to register non-canadian products? The regulations are extremely protectionist and in many cases disregard products that are deemed acceptable in the rest of the First World.

Jim

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
SeaChick:

This is simply NOT the case, they are following the rules written by the Organic Industry and implemented as NOP. There is a lot of "That isn't what we meant" going on regarding the large scale organic production. Now we are going to have "more Organic than Organic" and "This is REAL Organic because I am a small guy".

Jim