Why so down on natural/organic practices?

[Tracyree]

I've been a member for quite a while now and mostly read rather than participate. While researching mite treatments I noticed a lot of folks are not only skeptical of natural practices, but seem downright opposed.

I don't get it. Shouldn't we all be trying to get away from chemicals (all the pests are growing resistant, they are bad for the environment and our health......)

Why is it that when folks post specifically saying "I want a natural/organic option" they receive so many suggestions to use sevin, ivermectin, frontline.....?

Why not ignore those of us wanting to do this naturally instead if suggest toxin use?

 

[my sunwolf]

Because none of us have had any success using natural treatments! I have tried a lot of natural treatments for various chicken ailments in the past and have had almost zero success if the chicken is already sick. If a chicken has bad genetics, there's no help for it using natural treatments. Most people on here also seem to be against culling, so... I always give them the advice to actually treat their chicken with bad genetics.

Instead of what I would do, which is cull.

I also find that there have not been as many official/formal research studies done on natural treatments. We all know why that is, but it still means that all we have to go on is hearsay. For me, that's not always enough, especially when my business is on the line.

 

[hemet dennis]

Chicken soup always works.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

There are a lot of natural "remedies" out there but very few of them have actual documented benefits. I personally tend to be more prone to use things if there are scientific studies that support their benefits.

My position is that I would rather treat the issue than waste time with other remedies that don't work and risk causing an animal (or myself) unnecessary pain or suffering.

 

[Tracyree]

It's frustrating for me as I trust science and prefer well researched and proven methods, BUT at the same time want natural, non-toxic treatments. The natural methods aren't researched and studied as no one stands to gain monetarily, so it leaves folks like me in a position where I have to research extensively then choose which uncomfortable route to take: Methods known to work but go against my core beliefs of using non-toxic things or trying natural methods that may not work as fast or easily.

I've found that there is a lot of junk advice in the natural/non-toxic world, but if you can weed through that there is also a lot that works really well but with more labor involved than the traditional off the shelf treatments.

That may be another factor, it's way too hard to treat a huge flock organically than a small one like my own. I have 7 hens. I couldn't imagine cleaning out a huge coop multiple times in week and hand dipping each hen for parasites if there we're say 20 or more. I can see why ivermectin or something you put in the water would be the way to go in that situation.

I'm just frustrated by the lack of respect I've seen for those of us with a few birds that feel strongly about organic practices. I can see why it's not for everyone for sure, but to be disregarded so often is frustrating.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

The best all natural egg business I've seen was a small operation that was completely cage-free but in very biosecure buildings with no access to wild birds. However, this operation had been completely antibiotic free for about 15 years. They had very happy birds and no problems with illnesses.

It may be a thought for people interested in following a more natural path. Eliminating access to disease is a great way to avoid having to use medicines!

 

[Beekissed]

I've been a member for quite a while now and mostly read rather than participate. While researching mite treatments I noticed a lot of folks are not only skeptical of natural practices, but seem downright opposed.

I don't get it. Shouldn't we all be trying to get away from chemicals (all the pests are growing resistant, they are bad for the environment and our health......)

Why is it that when folks post specifically saying "I want a natural/organic option" they receive so many suggestions to use sevin, ivermectin, frontline.....?

Why not ignore those of us wanting to do this naturally instead if suggest toxin use?

Because we live in a society that wants something NOW and they don't want to have to work for it, so they take the easiest route to solve the problem. That's how we got our toxic soils, airs and streams in the first place.

Those that say they tried natural remedies and they just didn't work are trying to use natural remedies like they use the chemicals, whereas natural remedies work very well when used in a holistic approach that is more preventative, then curative.

So, in essence, they use poor flock management, contract parasites and illness along the way and then expect that a mild, natural remedy will magically undo all that damage....while the soils, stocking rates, management practices and coop environment that caused the problem are still there to cause the same problem to recur. They have great success using chemicals because they don't have to change anything else about their paradigms...just keep repeating the chemicals as the birds get recurring illness and parasite infestations. So, for their flock management efforts and style, the chemicals work best because they are unwilling to do the work it takes to prevent illness and would rather just cure it...over and over.

Then, when they hear of someone using or wanting to use the natural methods that they didn't know how to use properly, failed at and now scorn, they are quick to shoot sour grapes at that person to discourage them from ever trying...for if they try them and have success, what does that say about them?

You'll find that over and over on every animal forum and, believe it or not, it's better here now than it ever was in regards to natural methods. Now they merely offer chemicals or try to down grade natural methods but years ago when I came here, I was roundly attacked each time I ever mentioned such things. It's getting better...slowly.

 

[my sunwolf]

Because we live in a society that wants something NOW and they don't want to have to work for it, so they take the easiest route to solve the problem. That's how we got our toxic soils, airs and streams in the first place.

Those that say they tried natural remedies and they just didn't work are trying to use natural remedies like they use the chemicals, whereas natural remedies work very well when used in a holistic approach that is more preventative, then curative.

So, in essence, they use poor flock management, contract parasites and illness along the way and then expect that a mild, natural remedy will magically undo all that damage....while the soils, stocking rates, management practices and coop environment that caused the problem are still there to cause the same problem to recur. They have great success using chemicals because they don't have to change anything else about their paradigms...just keep repeating the chemicals as the birds get recurring illness and parasite infestations. So, for their flock management efforts and style, the chemicals work best because they are unwilling to do the work it takes to prevent illness and would rather just cure it...over and over.

Then, when they hear of someone using or wanting to use the natural methods that they didn't know how to use properly, failed at and now scorn, they are quick to shoot sour grapes at that person to discourage them from ever trying...for if they try them and have success, what does that say about them?

You'll find that over and over on every animal forum and, believe it or not, it's better here now than it ever was in regards to natural methods. Now they merely offer chemicals or try to down grade natural methods but years ago when I came here, I was roundly attacked each time I ever mentioned such things. It's getting better...slowly.

I agree with all of this, especially the part I bolded. Chicker delved into this as well... they key is prevention. Don't let anything get them in the first place.

What Bee didn't mention is that bad things can happen with good management. And then you're forced to make hard choices, like either destroy the whole flock or dive into the chemicals for help. Not saying this is common, just that it happens.

I will also agree with Bee that the attitude has changed even since I've been here, which is not very long

But I've noticed that this is largely due to the larger scale operational managers beginning to feel unwelcome by true backyarders.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Like you, I have to do a ton of digging to find out any real info, *but* I've certainly found natural/organic/etc methods that work for my health, the health of my animals, my garden's health/etc., and have found methods backed by solid, peer-reviewed science. Like others have said, some methods are better preventatives, and some take a while to work, so those are some reasons why many assume that all natural products do not work. Another reason is because there is a lot of hype about natural products and plenty of products out there that actually don't do anything or can even be more harmful than helpful (same can of course be said about synthetics, but the marketing and culture often allow that to be overlooked). I'm glad to hear the dust has settled somewhat on this particular topic.