About (food grade) Diatomaceous Earth

[littlecoopnextdoor]

...Also, could somebody have the kindness to tell me if lice and mites are the same?
I'm confused about English here...
For me, lice are not mites; but I found on the Internet that was not the same in English...?
Am I mistaken, or...?

When I write "lice/mites", I think about the same kind of bugs - but different colours or whatever. (All the ones that we can see with the naked eye, you know...?)
I don't use "mites" here thinking about the mites from "scaly leg mites", that are different... I actually think only about lice (we call them "poux" in my country, while mites would be referred by "acariens" - speaking about "gale des pattes" or "gale déplumante" concerning our chickens).

Sorry, I'm just confused about vocabulary here, because I read some people referring to what I would call "lice" by "mites"...

Bonjour Papaye les "lice" (poux) et les mites (acariens) ce ne pas le même en anglais, mais tres similaire. Pour les poules, ils sont "scaly leg mites", "feather mites", "red mites", si les acariens ne sont pas traités, cela peut poser un problème.

Plus Information: "La plupart des gens connaissent les acariens et les poux communs, tandis que l'acarien n'attaque pas les humains, il y a beaucoup d'acariens qui peuvent « mordre ». La plupart des poux sont des charognards, se nourrissant de la peau et d'autres débris trouvés sur le corps de l'hôte, mais certaines espèces se nourrissent de sécrétions sébacées et de sang. La plupart ne se trouvent que sur des types spécifiques d'animaux et, dans certains cas, uniquement sur une partie particulière du corps. Par exemple, chez l'homme, différentes espèces de tiques habitent le cuir chevelu et les poils pubiens. Les poux ne peuvent généralement pas survivre longtemps s'ils sont retirés de leur hôte. Les poux de tête, également appelés pediculus humanus capitis, sont le type de poux le plus courant. Les poux sont des insectes parasites que l'on trouve sur la tête des gens. Avoir des poux de tête est très fréquent. On estime que 6 à 12 millions de personnes aux États-Unis ont des poux de tête chaque année."

 

[Papaye]

@littlecoopnextdoor :

Merci! Thank you!

(I am answering to you in English in order to let people understand what I write. Do tell me if you prefer French!!)

Yes... red mites are mites, but in English, I would have only used this term specifically to refer to the mites responsible of scaly leg mites ("gale des pattes") and feather mites ("gale déplumante").
Also because the treatment is not the same : for scaly leg mites and feather mites, I would use Cade Oil as a cure... but for red mites, I would use the same kind of treatment used to get rice of lice (food grade Diatomaceous Earth for me, but any other otherwise - whatever works!)...

 

[The Welch Chickens]

@The Welch Chickens :

Diatomaceous Earth would need to be on your chickens' feathers to help them against lice/mites.
If you let DE on the ground, that would just kill the bugs that touch it... but not the ones that are on your birds and that have no contact with DE.

When my chickens have lice/mites on them, I just rub Diatomaceous Earth on and in their feathers...
Of course being careful to not get DE in their eyes, and trying as much as much possible to protect them from inhaling DE! (And trying to protect ME too from the same, of course - so masks and goggles on...!!)

I don't know if putting Diatomaceous Earth in their dust bath actually works greatly?
...I would think that would be complicated to put enough DE to actually be so useful...?
(I have NO useful experience with DE in dust baths only : my department is much too humid, and DE works against lice/mites only if it's dry!)

On external application, Diatomaceous Earth can take up to two days to kill lice/mites... (DE hurts them, and dries them up... some bugs are tenacious and survive up to two days!)
But since I was desperate with the dying rooster, I used much more DE so that could suffocate the bugs... and kill them immediately.
That worked splendidly!

Our chickens have never had lice or mites; the DE is just a precaution against them. The container of food grade DE was my mother's idea; she had read about it. I definitely did not expect them to dustbathe in pure DE, and when I asked Mom about that, she said it would help with scaly leg mites if they dip their feet in. Anyone have thoughts on this? I have not researched the subject.

As for their dust bath, they have an area in the coop that they use. We sprinkle the area with First Saturday Lime: https://firstsaturdaylime.com/
It works great for killing tiny bugs. I even use it in my garden to kill aphids; it works immediately on them.
One of our hens stepped in a nest of inchworms (or some other sort of worm) last summer. The worms were quickly killed using First Saturday Lime and we never had any other problems. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/tiny-worms.1596982/

 

[dawg53]

Our chickens have never had lice or mites; the DE is just a precaution against them. The container of food grade DE was my mother's idea; she had read about it. I definitely did not expect them to dustbathe in pure DE, and when I asked Mom about that, she said it would help with scaly leg mites if they dip their feet in. Anyone have thoughts on this? I have not researched the subject.

As for their dust bath, they have an area in the coop that they use. We sprinkle the area with First Saturday Lime: https://firstsaturdaylime.com/
It works great for killing tiny bugs. I even use it in my garden to kill aphids; it works immediately on them.
One of our hens stepped in a nest of inchworms (or some other sort of worm) last summer. The worms were quickly killed using First Saturday Lime and we never had any other problems. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/tiny-worms.1596982/

DE will not treat scaly leg mites since they feed on tissue.
Scaly leg mites should be smothered with vaseline or other products. I prefer Nu-Stock.

 

[Papaye]

@dawg53 :

I never heard about Diatomaceous Earth causing severe allergies like mines...?
Could you source that, please?
(But whatever : I'm being very careful, and certainly not using enough DE to cause me harm... even though I regurlaly mix DE in my chickens food, since I use all precautions I can to avoid DE dust when doing so...)

My allergies are not because of Diatomaceous Earth : where I'm from, there is an epidemic of people developping severe allergies recently.
I assure you Diatomaceous Earth is not the cause...!
(I have a friend who almost died because of that : she ended up in the hospital because she was choking and could not breath...)

@The Welch Chickens :

I... don't know if Diatomaceous Earth is useful against scaly leg mites...
Could be. Or could not be...
If DE can dry up these kind of mites... why not?

For scaly leg mites, you would need to suffocate them to be sure to get rid of them...
...In my country, we have Cade Oil - that makes miracles... 100% effective in prevention or in treatment...!
But we also have other solutions, of course... Scaly legs are really easy to cure after all - much more than to get rid of lice and mites is...!

You can sometimes wash your chickens' legs with Apple Cider Vinegar to prevent mites attack.
I won't tell you that is 100% effective, but that is better than nothing!

(I never heard about First Saturday Lime.)

 

[Papaye]

@dawg53 :

Hi again!

You did not answer to me...
Could you just tell me your source concerning the fact that food grade Diatomaceous Earth could cause the kind of severe allergies I have developed...?
Because I have searched for hours, in different languages, and I did not find ANY information suggesting that this might be the case...
Actually, I did not learn anything that I did not already know...

Also... I did some more research about Permethrin - the product you recommend to use to kill lices and mites instead of food grade Diatomaceous Earth...
And I would admit I don't understand why people would think Permethrin is better to use than DE : indeed, accordind to what I read, Permetrin seem to be much more harmful than Diatomaceous Earth could be!

 

[Stravager]

...The next day (so the third day), I did not put Apple Cider Vinegar in his water : instead, I put Olive Oil.

Oil and water do not mix. They would have separated in a matter of minutes and the oil would have clumped together. If you had shaken them together it would take longer, but I'm curious as to the reasoning why you would put oil in their waterer rather than on their feed?

 

[Papaye]

Hi!

@dawg53 :

I could tell the same to you because you use Permetrin, you know?

...I am being very, very careful, so...
I have used food grave Diatomaceous Earth for years, without any problem... and I have asthma!

But again : you did not answer to me.
Where is your source concerning the fact food grade Diatomaceous Earth can cause the kind of severe allergies I have?
Do you HAVE a source...?

@Stravager :

Nah... when I put Olive Oil in my chickens waterer, the water stays entirely oily... even though yes : the most of the oil stays at the surface of the water. What suits me fine, since when I mix oil with water, the goal is to make the chickens drink the oil first...

I don't mix Olive Oil with food because my chickens have several feeders : the plastic ones, in which I mix food grade Diatomaceous Earth with their food (and since DE have to stay dry, I can't put oil with it); and the metal ones.

Olive Oil is expensive. I don't want to have to put it in all the feeders, nor do I want to cut access to all these feeders but one, even for a day.
Cheaper for me to put Olive Oil in water, and I don't have any reason to not do so, you know...?

But sometines, when I give my chickens some mix of other food in a separate bowl, I just put Olive Oil directly in this food. Works fine...

 

[BDutch]

Thanks for sharing your ideas on DE. I also wondered why some people are so very sceptical about DE. I have healthy chickens and believe it works (to a certain limit) too.
I didn’t read the whole tread, so far. But will give my own experiences and answers to some of your questions later if I have more time.

Btw, I live in the Netherlands and have no acces to a lot of poisons and medicines either. I don’t like the use of it for my chickens and don’t want to eat poisonous eggs either. They are fed with organic food for this and environmental reasons too.

 

[BDutch]

why exactly do some people tell DE is not a dewormer?

If DE is wet, it doesn’t work. So inside your guts it doesn’t work. But the DE is in the droppings. And if the droppings dry some worms get killed. Chances on reinfection are reduced.

have experience with DE and the product worked for your birds, please tell and give details.

I use it as a paint (make it wet) on the roosts/joints and inside the coop to prevent a mite infestation. But always check weekly!

Last year I had an infestation that started in the nestboxes where I had 3 broodies and 9 chicks. I probably didn’t put enough DE in the bedding and didn’t apply enough DE to prevent an infestation. To eliminate all mites/ mite eggs I didn’t dust the chicks (was afraid it would harm them) and did/used a lot more than DE.
Looking back, it might have been better if I had dusted all chicks a couple of times too.

Diatomaceous Earth can take up to two days to kill lice/mites... (

Red mite eggs stay alive a very, very long time. The red mites lay them in dark spots and cracks. Therefore they are not easy to eliminate.

(I have NO useful experience with DE in dust baths only : my department is much too humid, and DE works against lice/mites only if it's dry!)

I use DE in a dustbath area under a glass roof where the sand doesn’t get wet. Every time I fill up the pit, I add a couple of spoons of DE. Never had feather lice or scaly leg mites (SLM). But it doesn’t keep the (all) red mites away.