Wolves On My Property!

[Kharmel]

Quote:
Not enough livestock or land to protect. I only live on 2 acres and have 1 horse, 2 pet sheep and 6 chickens

How much others or more importantly you value your stock determines what expense and measure can be taken to prevent or control future losses. LGD needed to do job might cost as much as all your existing stock combined, possibly more.

In the case of grey wolves with your limited area to protect, I think a shotgun would be most logical option not requiring the killing off your local pack. As with coyotes, if locals do not go after stock, they will keep others out that may be more likely to so.

I do think that with our native large predators, if one or a group of individuals becomes a problem, they and they alone should be Persecuted with extreme prejudice. Leave the non-offenders of same species alone. With time (human generations) attacks on livestock should go down.

Where are you located?

I'm in the northeastern part of Washington. Saw the neighbor in town yesterday. She said they talked to fish and wildlife and were quietly told by the person on the phone to use the SSS method (shoot, shovel, shut-up)

 

[dacjohns]

Quote:

Now to go back and catch up with this thread lest I put my foot in my mouth and say something that has already been said.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
How much others or more importantly you value your stock determines what expense and measure can be taken to prevent or control future losses. LGD needed to do job might cost as much as all your existing stock combined, possibly more.

In the case of grey wolves with your limited area to protect, I think a shotgun would be most logical option not requiring the killing off your local pack. As with coyotes, if locals do not go after stock, they will keep others out that may be more likely to so.

I do think that with our native large predators, if one or a group of individuals becomes a problem, they and they alone should be Persecuted with extreme prejudice. Leave the non-offenders of same species alone. With time (human generations) attacks on livestock should go down.

Where are you located?

I'm in the northeastern part of Washington. Saw the neighbor in town yesterday. She said they talked to fish and wildlife and were quietly told by the person on the phone to use the SSS method (shoot, shovel, shut-up)

Then SSS in my opinion would serve all better for longer term. Wolves are smart, much smarter than most other predators, and they will learn to avoid livestock if risk high of getting hurt. Also in IMO we should not go on a general killing spree to eliminate problem, just control it.

You are in an area where wolves will be immigrating to on their own. I am pretty sure the federal and state governments would not be stocking wolf packs without public hearings on matter first.

 

[ShrekDawg]

i agree, an LGD and/or a shotgun and good fence should be enough to deter the wolves and/or other predators, good luck!

 

[Yardbirds286]

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[herfrds]

Nope it is our private property. We own it free and clear.

Guess you didn't read it too well. Must be PROVEN a wolf kill to get compensation when some are discovered all proof is gone, we do not want to jump through the hoops to get compensated, we take care of it ourselves.
We had a falling out with FWP years ago concerning deer tearing up our hay stacks so we do not report anything to them.

Several guys have tried pie pans tied to the fences, cracker shells and riders. The livestock killing continues. Wolves get used to the attempted deterantes and soon ignore them.

Just for your info TFT go look up Haage vs US Goverment and read the Supreme Court ruling concerning "public" lands.
The ranchers pay for the lease and pay taxes on the cattle raised there.
As my MIL always said. "Land rich, but cash poor."
If we ranchers and farmers are so rich, why do 90% of couples have a town job? Around here it is 99.5% where one spouse or both have jobs off of the farm/ranch.
Must be nice to have a cushy government job as a wildlife bioloigist.


I subscribe to an ag newspaper. Back in 1998 the editor got a letter from a 4th grade teacher from back east. Wanted to know if it was alright for her class to write letters concerning the wolves and if anybody wanted to respond they were welcome to do so.
That first year the letters were about how us ranchers were wrong about the wolves and how they would not eat our livestock and that they would only eat wildlife.
I know those kids got flooded with mail.
Same mind set continued for the next couple of years. (Sound familiar TFT?)
Then the letters changed.
Why didn't we fence our land to keep the wolves out? That got us to chuckling. An 8' chain link fence with a 2' deep cememt edge poured underneath was suggested. Was explained that it would interfere with the normal animal movement of deer and elk. Also it was not a cheap option.
The last year we got letters from this class.
They were asking why there was no wolf hunt to control the number of wolves as was promised in the re-introduction. Another said all the wolves should be removed.
It was pretty neat watching how the different classes presented with the same information changed their minds about wolves once they started talking to those of us who actually have to live with them and suffer losses.

 

[herfrds]

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/columns/story?columnist=swan_james&id=5131109

Just one of several. Nice myth and tall tales.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/article_5ff01772-938f-11de-9aca-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.newwest.net/city/article/northwest_montana_wolf_kill_stirs_emotions/C8/L8/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/06/wolf-killing-set-to-expan_n_706479.html

 

[ellieroo]

The other side http://www.newwest.net/topic/articl...s_and_the_externalization_of_costs/C564/L564/


http://www.publiclandsranching.org/book.htm it is a lot of reading but both sides need to be heard.

 

[centrarchid]

The folks here with smaller land holdings, different management options can be used to control losses to wolf depredation. The larger cattle producers have problems that are potentially more difficult and in one form or another the has been paid for by tax payer. Regardless, I think problem can be licked without getting rid of all wolves in lower 48. Process will be painfull.

I like the concept of large predators and natural ecosystems operating in some areas within the US. We have gone too far with transforming everything into someones back yard or ranch. I pay taxes, I vote, I want some wildlife. Already had to suck it some here in midwest for restoration of systems. More needed or some species that are presently abundant now will go extinct for future generations.

 

[TheFeatheredTempest]

No cushy job. Spend most of my time these days in the public education sector. There's absolutely no money in biology (well, maybe in the medical field). I will be paying back student loans until the day I die. I do what I do because I love it even though it means I drive a fifteen year old rust bucket and still don't have enough money for a down payment on my own home.

When I mentioned documenting one's sources I meant peer reviewed scientific publications. To find these use Google Scholar. Newspapers, magazines, etc. are for-profit interests staffed with writers, if you are lucky, but not with credible experts of any kind. I would not consider ANY news source, even if it were CNN or NPR, as accountable in regards to science. The closest one can get to accurate science reporting in the public domain is the BBC.

Private agricultural and ranching use of public lands results in an economic loss to tax payers. It's a farm subsidy program and an expensive one too. Debating the pros and cons of subsidies and their ultimate effect on the economy would be a lengthy subject indeed. In the case of public lands being used for ranching there are many extended hidden costs to the public. Anyone really interested in the topic can PM me and I'll pull up some publications to email you and you can sift through them and draw your own conclusions.

Finally, I'd encourage people to work within the system whenever possible and seek long term solutions. Simply blowing away whatever or whoever is p***ing you off on any given day is not a long term solution no matter how tempting it may be. And none of this means that I don't sympathize with decent folks trying to make a decent living. I really do.