Won't the USA ever learn?????? A little world history

[Dunkopf]

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It depends a lot on who's President and how he is perceived by other countries. The USA was very popular right after the 2008 election. Then the effects of bad decisions made during 1992-2008 caused all of Europe to go into a recession and our popularity dropped a bit.

We're still a lot more popular than we were in 2004-2008. At that time we were just considered to be warmongers with no concern for anyone but ourselves. Isn't it funny how less than 51% of our people vote for someone yet the world views it as everyone in our country agreeing with whoever got elected. Sometimes because of our electorate system less than half the country votes for someone and they get elected.

When I was stationed in Germany I talked to a lot of Germans of course. This was 81-83 and Reagan was in the WH. A lot of Germans resented our heavy presence there. The older people who had been around during WWII appreciated us because they had seen Hitler up close. The young people felt that their country could take care of itself. Most everyone agreed that American tourist were terrible though. They felt they were pompous and full of themselves. There were a lot of European tourist too. The locals of course felt more of a kinship to them since they shared a continent and were aware of European customs.

It's always been the Ugly American. Not well justified, but there anyway.

 

[Dunkopf]

When you watch the live feed, it looks like we just left all our equipment over in Kuwait in 1991 or whenever Desert Storm was. Then had it shipped to Egypt. We probably did just that. Gave it to them as part of an aid package so we wouldn't have to ship it back to the US.

Wonder how much of our stuff stayed in Iraq. It would make more sense to leave it there for next time. It cost 100's of millions, probably billions to ship all those tanks and stuff.

 

[Ridgerunner]

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I do care. It is a lot easier to recruit terrorists from someone that does not like us that it is from someone that sees us as decent people. You get a different reception if you are seen as a liberator than as a conquerer. PR is important.

I've seen the ugly American tourist in Europe, people that fit the caricature perfectly, loud, rude, and obnoxious. It only takes a very few to give us all a bad name. Not all American tourists are ugly, but man is it embarrassing when you share space in public with one. How hard is it to understand that most of the people you share a bus or underground car with can understand exactly what you are saying?

Why did we back Mubarak. When Sadat was assassinated, Mubarak was the legitimate vice president and the constitutional choice as president. There was some hope for normalization with Isreal at that time and he was seen as a possible help to that. At the time, the opposition was the group of military officeers that assassinated Sadat and wanted to tear up any progress made on the Isreal issue.

Steve, do we ever learn from history? Hopefully some, but I think you have to look at historic decisions in the context of what the options were at that time. Egypt is one of the more secular Islamic countries. That is why it is such a powder keg and so important to us. Over the years, should we have pressured Mubarak to do things differently? Yeah. I suspect we actually did and were somewhat successful in some things. But only somewhat. And where does that pressure turn into meddling with internal politics? And I'm sure we made some bad decisions in which way to pressure him. If you loosen control, you give the fanatics an opening, yet if you don't loosen control, you are oppressive and give fanatics an opening. It is hard.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

I strongly advise you to read the book Overthrow if you want to get the picture.

I am with welsummer on this one. We supported Mubarak simply by leaving him alone. Really take a look at the situation in Iran. We supported the Shah and helped him regain power when he had lost power to the first democratically elected president they ever had. Why? Because he was more willing to support our interests. We then told the Shah to play nice when his people started to revolt (we can't look like we don't support democracy - we have to do that in secret) and what did we get? A revolution that put into place people who truly hate us AND that brutalizes their people.

The concern is that if Egypt becomes democratic we may not like who they choose to have run their country. Egypt is very important to us.....

Politics on the international scale is risky stuff. And we have - all too often - done what was in the interests of our own internal businesses rather than what was good for our country or especially what was good for the people of another country.

We're human too. We make good decisions and bad. As a people we usually mean well. We just don't always give other countries their due in recognizing their right and ability to screw themselves up! Like overbearing narrow minded parents we are sure we know what is best for everyone, and often push them until they rebel completely.

Egypt is not the only country ion play right now and the US has a great deal to lose if these countries fall into the hands of regimes (elected or not) that hate us.

They are shooting at us with our won weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan..... so what else is new.

 

[EweSheep]

don't forget Libya! I know that Mubarak does not like Libya nor support that regime's scheme of things.....ugh, what is that leader's name?

 

[Talihofarms]

I always get a laugh from people who give their opinion ............such as we lost in Afganistan.

To that I say, When was the last time you were there ?

The last time I was in the sand box we were doing great.
And my good friends who are still there seem to feel the same way.
Opinins are like a.....oles....you know the rest.
Some people just watch too much TV.

Any other vets like to chime in?

 

[welsummerchicks]

I think some of the hot feelings get stuck in people because they don't recognize that ALL countries wheeler-deal with each other, make 'i hate this but we gotta' decisions in the belief not that it is good, but that it appears to be the only course right now, and then something changes, and EVERYONE sells everyone else, weapons, aid and everything else. It's a complicated little old world out there.

We're in the transition period from 'nationhood' to 'blocks of natiions' to 'economic corporation', LOL.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

don't forget Libya! I know that Mubarak does not like Libya nor support that regime's scheme of things.....ugh, what is that leader's name?

There are lots of different spellings, but it sounds like Muamarr Quadafi​

 

[EweSheep]

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There are lots of different spellings, but it sounds like Muamarr Quadafi

That's it!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't think Gaddafi is in all that much bad favor with the West now. It just shows you how much things change. Not that he is loved or looked up to. More that he is no longer as openly active against us. Apparently we are no longer trying to assassinate him.