Worming and Scale Mites

[Haleyrbloom]

Hi! I am a 6-month chicken owner.
4 out of the 9 chickens are now laying.
The others should be in the next coming weeks.

My chickens are eating a ton of feed and I give them herbs, produce and live mealworms.
They have huge crops at the end of the night, but they are losing weight.
Their breastbone is very pronounced when you pick them up.
They don't show any signs of illness.

I am wondering if I should try deworming them.
I have read about sprinkling DE on their food.
I am wondering how much do I add to the food, and for how many days?
They are also in a coop/run. How do I keep the worms from spreading in the poop, if they have worms?

I did also notice their feet becoming scaley.
So I am thinking they might have scale mites?
Does anyone have experience with that?
A couple of my chickens have featured feet. They look scalier than the others.

Please share advice and experience.

Thank you in advance : )

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I am wondering if I should try deworming them.
I have read about sprinkling DE on their food.

DE doesn't work in wet environments, like the intestines.. please don't waste your money, time, or energy trying that worthless, over rated, false sense of security!

Getting a fecal float to make sure you treat for the correct worm species... if you need to is the best idea since not all medications treat all species. Only large round worms and tape worms will be seen in dropping under heavy load. All other species stay in the intestines and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs). I do a "flock" float... meaning several fresh samples combined into one... cost at my vet is $25. I also bought my own microscope so I can learn how to read my own. I WON'T treat what I don't have while maybe not treating what I do if using the wrong medication... it's a waste of my time, money, and effort.

Dry scales do not equal scaly leg mite. It looks more like toenail growth coming out from under the scale.. but if you think you've got them, they can be treated with a thick coating of vaseline or Crisco shortening... this will suffocate them, though I am unsure of how many days in a row you need to repeat for efficacy.

If you spend any time chasing your birds... save yourself some energy and do things after they have gone to roost... using a flashlight and keeping things dim. This is often the easiest way.

Alternatively.. Ivermectin pour on will treat scaly leg mite, some worm species, and even lice or regular mites. I would only choose that route if it was going to treat the worm species I wanted treated also... otherwise for general parasite control a permethrin based horse fly spray is effective, efficient, affordable, safe, requires no withdrawal for eggs... the spray is not considered effective on SLM though as they are under the skin and may not surface.

Post a pic of legs if you want. Feathered feet/legs... always appear slightly worse to me.

What is your regular feed? How much is a ton... in bags per week/month? What breed are they?

The keel bone is pretty pronounced in my experience... have you actually weighed them or visually they just look thinner or that's what you are noticing in comparison to how they have always been? You say they are laying now and you are a 6 month owner... does that mean they are 6 months old or just that's how long you have had them? Sorry so many questions... just looking for clues.

One more note about DE... it is approved for use in animal feeds at a rate of up to 2% as an anti-caking agent. Many feeds already have it and NONE claim it works for worming. I'm ALL for natural IF IT'S EFFECTIVE.

Good job paying attention and looking out for your ladies!

Good luck with diagnosis and treatment.

 

[azygous]

I agree with everything @EggSighted4Life has said. What I have to say will serve to back it up. DE isn't a de-wormer. In fact DE won't do much of anything as far as getting rid of parasites.

Have you checked the crops first thing in the morning to be sure they are emptying completely overnight? Do your chickens have access to grit? What proportion of their daily food intake do the produce and herbs represent? If it is more than a very slight amount in proportion to feed, they may not be getting a balanced diet.

Regarding the parasites, gather a random poop sample from your flock and find a vet or an agricultural lab to run a fecal float test. That will tell you if they have an overload and you need to worm them.

The scaly leg mites will make chickens very uncomfortable as they can be pretty painful. You will know if leg mites are present if any of the scales appear to be lifting up. As the mites feast they poop, and the poop accumulates under the scales and begins to cause separation. The scales should be very smooth and flush. Treat by soaking in warm Epsom salts to soften the scales and to remove dead debris, then coat the legs and feet with thick oil such as Vaseline or castor oil.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

You will know if leg mites are present if any of the scales appear to be lifting up.

My older birds (2 years +) do lose some of their dried scales with a fresh beautiful one underneath. But it looks nothing like SLM.

Balanced diet is key to so many things.

 

[Haleyrbloom]

My oldest are 6 months old. I have had them since day 2. I have 9 in the run.
1- cinnamon queen
1- splash marans
1- golden laced polish
1- salmon faverolle
1- barnvelder
1- double silver laced barnvelder
1- white silkie
1- cream legbar
1- whiting true blue

I feed them a mix of Scratch and Peck layer and grower feed (pour in a bowl and refill every time it is empty. They get scratch, or live meal worms every other day (1 cup) and fresh veggies and herbs everyday (about 3 carrots with greens, a bunch of herbs, 1/2 cup berries, would be a typical amount.) I have grit I add to feed and oyster shell in a separate container.

I do check there crops each morning. Seems like they empty each day.

I will try and take a picture of their feet.
Poop seems fine, too.

The chickens won’t try and eat the vaseline off? And won’t the bedding stick to it? I use dirt and rice hulls. My run isn’t wet at all. Can I use olive oil, or coconut oil?

Thank you for your help.

 

[azygous]

Try to measure the feed your nine chickens eat each day. They should each be consuming at least half a cup of feed each day. You may need to cut down a bit on the other stuff so they aren't filling up on it to their detriment.

When I first used castor oil on my chickens that had leg mites, it was so messy, I cringed. Try to ignore the mess. It will be over with in less than two days time as it wears off, including whatever sticks to their oily legs. The oil is to smother the mites, and it only needs to last a day or so. You may wish to repeat the process in another week to be sure you get any that have hatched since the first oil treatment.

A less messy treatment is Ivermectin. Just a drop on the skin on the back of the neck will kill all parasites on and inside a chicken. Another "clean" treatment for external parasites, including lice and mites, is spinosad. I buy it under the label "Elector PSP". It's pricey but economical and very, very efficient.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

The chickens won’t try and eat the vaseline off? And won’t the bedding stick to it? I use dirt and rice hulls. My run isn’t wet at all. Can I use olive oil, or coconut oil?

They might... that's why I suggested the shortening because it's edible.

The thinner oils... MIGHT wear off faster or be absorbed quicker... I truly don't know!

I use rice hulls in some of my smaller coops... I THINK I like them a lot.

You might consider offering the grit on the side instead of mixed in, so they can take what they need?

One issue with beautiful feeds like the scratch and peck... is that individual birds can pick out the stuff they like the most, like corn... leaving the more nutritious stuff behind for the other birds. Now I'm not saying it's super common and nor am I a fear monger, but I must at least share the information I have so that you can make your best choice that feels right to you.... So some people feeding S&P... have experienced sudden death due to fatty liver in some of their birds... most likely those individual birds may have been genetically predisposed in some fashion... they were fed the S&P AND an excess amount of treats like scratch. I personally would NOT buy any more scratch... and consider it the potato chip of the chicken world... highly enjoyed but seriously lacking in nutrients. The many people that claim feed corn or scratch to birds when it's cold at night so they can stay warm... simply don't understand that a calorie is a calorie that gives the birds energy to keep themselves and choosing calories that have more nutrients verses being empty calories is the wise choice. I do like sprouting or even fodder as a source of enrichment and semi nutritious treat. It increases it's weight by 7 times in as many days with just a couple simple rinses per day, but won't save the big bucks. I use barley as it was said to have the least amount of issue with molding or sprouting. But you can do peas, oats, wheat, rye, chia, even corn... all kinds of things just remember nutrients vary widely.

Carrots and greens really aren't that nutritious in my book, especially if "greens" is lettuce. When you say scratch or live mealworm every other day... does that mean they get one or the other every single day but alternating?

I found that my birds eat "less", if I make the feed just free choice with NO refilling. Every time I would come out to refill they would come see what I was bringing and eat up. But I quit doing that and now they only rush me at treat time... which is about 1 hour before dark since I like to make sure nobody is in the lay box or missing out. And they had all day to eat regular feed... they will get a small amount of treats.... less than 10% of their total daily consumption, And they still have a while to fill up anything else they want... that is on pasture or in their formulated ration.

9 birds should be going through about 2- 2.25# of feed per day... That's 20-25# per 10 days... or about 3 bags per month... I only saw 10 or 25# bags on their website. And WHY do they make it so hard to find their guaranteed analysis on their website?! It's basic need to know information.

A little ways down the page is basic nutrition information on live mealworms... Great source of protein but fat content is high...
http://www.sialis.org/raisingmealworms.htm#freeze

I sometimes feed scrambled or boiled eggs back... they are 34% protein (by energy/calories not weight) and 64% fat... but loaded with nutrients... and half the protein is found IN the yolk.... once you are rolling in the extra eggs. Recently though, I realize if my flock happen to be short on some nutrient and I think they are getting extra from eggs... maybe they aren't.

Your flock sounds lovely! Sounds like you care about them to.

 

[Haleyrbloom]

Thank you for that info. Makes sense.
I will try some new stuff. By greens, I mean herbs, zucchini, cucumber, broccoli, chard, and kale.

I don’t have corn in my feed. Just in the scratch. I do switch every other day between worms and scratch.

I also read a thing about using black strap molasses to clean out a chicken.

Have any of you tried that?

 

[Haleyrbloom]

Also, would you recommend layer pellets, or layer crumble?

I have four girls laying, three that should be laying within a few weeks and two others that are only 18 weeks.

Should I only have grower feed out now with oyster shell, or all layer feed with oyster shell?

I heard something about chickens eating later feed too early having issues with kidneys?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Also, would you recommend layer pellets, or layer crumble?

I have four girls laying, three that should be laying within a few weeks and two others that are only 18 weeks.

Should I only have grower feed out now with oyster shell, or all layer feed with oyster shell?

I heard something about chickens eating later feed too early having issues with kidneys?

Pellets or crumble is a personal choice... some flock waste more of one than the other.

I never switch to layer partly because it has too much calcium for my birds who molt and such, also because dual purpose birds do better with more protein... your mealworms are adding protein, but the fat content might be excess.

It's true that birds not in lay fed >3% calcium long term *can* (doesn't mean will) suffer from gout or even kidney failure. Again, it one of those things that people fear monger about. It is most likely to occur in those who are genetically predisposed somehow. I have seen some people experience it, confirmed... while others have fed nothing but S&P layer to their rooster for 8+ years... with no obvious symptoms or issues.

For me it's a combination of not enough protein to meet my goals with too much calcium for my flocks needs... so I NEVER switch to layer. I use flock raiser with OS on the side.. but grower is a good choice with OS on the side. You could use only one or the other as having multiple feeds is usually a hassle and the ONLY main difference between them is protein and calcium content... so whatever you are comfortable with between the two SHOULD be fine for your flock.

That being said layer feed too early *can* also stunt growth and delay development including onset of lay... 18 weeks is not what most people would consider too early. But this time of year... it could be another 18 weeks until until some start laying... like your Silkie.

Cucumbers and zuccs... just treat foods as well... high in water content. Though if they were free ranging the garden they may have access to all these things anyways.

Yes black strap molasses can have a laxative effect... I would not choose to do it unless I had extreme cause... People are in such a hurry to try all their magic potions on chickens... when chicken have been surviving thousands of years without our intervention. If I WAS going to do anything... I would offer probiotics in the form of fermented foods.. a little yogurt, buttermilk.. or some people ferment their feed. There is a natural balance to things though... if all are well it will have little to no effect. And I don't believe molasses "cleaning" will have any effect on internal parasites... There MAY be a time and place to use it... I don't believe you are there.

You have lots of things on your radar... and access to BYC and MANY people experiences (and opinions), lot's of chances to consider many scenarios and decide what YOU think. Try to not just take anyone's word (even mine, people make mistakes and are sometimes misinformed), as I have seen some truly BAD advice given by people who have "done it that way for years" and were trusted advisers. You seem to be off to good start. You just need to lay off the treats some.

Oh wait... you ask about pellets or crumbles... I didn't realize S&P made pelleted formulas.