Worming with Safeguard Goat Wormer

[Noreaster Egger]

I just started closing all of my browser tabs after researching yesterday and saw on the FARAD site that fenbendazole is approved for layinghens in the UK at a dose of 1mg/kg/bw over 5 days.

http://www.usfarad.org/drug-wdi-faqs.html

Are they suggesting to use 1/50th the dose you're recommending or are my math and/or units off? I know you have a lot of great posts on this subject over the years so maybe you've addressed this already. I'm just try g to suck in as much info as possible like a sponge.

 

[casportpony]

I just started closing all of my browser tabs after researching yesterday and saw on the FARAD site that fenbendazole is approved for layinghens in the UK at a dose of 1mg/kg/bw over 5 days.

http://www.usfarad.org/drug-wdi-faqs.html

Are they suggesting to use 1/50th the dose you're recommending or are my math and/or units off? I know you have a lot of great posts on this subject over the years so maybe you've addressed this already. I'm just try g to suck in as much info as possible like a sponge.

No, your math is correct. They are saying that at that dose there is very little drug residue in the eggs, so the eggs can be eaten in the UK. That dose only works when given at least five days in a row (can't remember how many days, so look that up). There is a study that mentions the percentage of worms killed. Roundworm coverage was pretty good, but it wasn't as effective in treating cecal worms. That dose will not treat capillary, tapes, and gapes. That is option if you feel UK egg withdrawal regulations are good enough, and you could possible do it without catching each bird.

Estimate weight of each bird, then calculate weight of flock.
Weight of flock in pounds, divide by 2.2, times 1, divide by 100 = number of ml Safeguard per day.

Take that Safeguard and mix with water, then make a mash with that water and feed that instead of dry crumbles Does that make sense?

 

[casportpony]

@Noreaster Egger , they make a truly water soluble fenbendazole product called AquaSol. It's twice as strong as the normal Safeguard you have, it's 200 mg/ml, not 100 mg/ml. It's really expensive and has a short shelf life once opened, so not a viable option for most backyarders.

Here if the product info. In it you will find a reference to the studies: http://fs-1.5mpublishing.com/images/MSD/PDF/PAP PBulletin v8c FINAL.pdf

 

[Noreaster Egger]

Muchos gracias @casportpony

I'm just small scale and I'm only worming a handful of my birds. I have some in molt so they're getting a reprieve. Feeding them the 10% suspension orally is no problem. I just want to rid my chicken of the roundworm overload. She's been losing some vent feathers the past week so I'm not sure if she's starting to molt or if it's worm related, but she's getting wormed regardless after seeing those droppings.

I'm just trying to figure out how many mL to dose them from the syringe. Last night the treated birds all received just 1/4mL. They're all full sized cold hardy breeds so I'm just lumping them all in at an even 10lbs each. I was planning to worm them 3-5 days and then again about a week later. Then I'd discard their eggs for a couple of weeks just to be on the safe side. So I guess what I'm looking for is a specific plan. If I can treat them effectively for just 3 days that would be great. Is your ~2.3mL (standard hen) amount a 1 time dose followed by another 1 time dose 10 days later? 5 days of 1/2mL would bring me up to 2.5mL over the 5 day stretch. These are obviously roundworms so maybe the lower end of the spectrum would be fine for me? I believe I'd read where you say it's difficult to OD the birds on this med and that you prefer to hit the worms hard.

 

[casportpony]

Since you have some molting you might want to use Wazine instead. All literature says fenbendazole can cause feather damage if given during molt. That said, I have used it many times when in molt and haven't noticed a problem, and many peafowl breeders use it during molt.

For just round worms I think I might be inclined to give 0.14 ml per pound for 3 days. The books say one massive dose (0.23 ml per pound) will treat them, but read recently that this type of worker works best when given several days in a row.

Are you sure they weigh 10 pounds each? That's a pretty big bird. It's been a long time since I had any large Cochins, Jesery Giants, Brahmas, etc, so who knows.

 

[Noreaster Egger]

Since you have some molting you might want to use Wazine instead. All literature says fenbendazole can cause feather damage if given during molt. That said, I have used it many times when in molt and haven't noticed a problem, and many peafowl breeders use it during molt.

For just round worms I think I might be inclined to give 0.14 ml per pound for 3 days. The books say one massive dose (0.23 ml per pound) will treat them, but read recently that this type of worker works best when given several days in a row.

Are you sure they weigh 10 pounds each? That's a pretty big bird. It's been a long time since I had any large Cochins, Jesery Giants, Brahmas, etc, so who knows.

They're probably closer to 6-8lbs. I was using a round number in examples for easier math. 2 are buff orps and 1 is a barred rock that are near the 7-8lb mark. The NH red and easter egger are probably 1-2lbs less.

The one possibly starting to molt has lost a few vent feathers, but nothing much yet. She stopped laying about 10-14 days ago, but she is the one I suspect of having dropped the roundworms in the droppings. I'd rather treat her now than have her go through a molt with an infestation. The one deep into the molt is going untreated.

 

[casportpony]

Here's how I figure out what dose to give... First I decide hw many mg/kg I want to give. In your case you're considering everything from 1-50 mg/kg. Then I decide how many days I'm gonna treat. This is the formula:

Weight of bird in pounds, divide by 2.2, times the chosen mg/kg, divide by number of mg/ml.

Example for an 8 pound hen:
8 / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 1.81 ml

That is the easiest way I have found.

 

[Noreaster Egger]

Here's how I figure out what dose to give... First I decide hw many mg/kg I want to give. In your case you're considering everything from 1-50 mg/kg. Then I decide how many days I'm gonna treat. This is the formula:

Weight of bird in pounds, divide by 2.2, times the chosen mg/kg, divide by number of mg/ml.

Example for an 8 pound hen:
8 / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 1.81 ml

That is the easiest way I have found.

Gotchya. When you say "then I decide how many days I'm gonna treat," if you were going to treat for 3 days, would you divide that 1.81mL over 3 days (0.6mL each day) or would you give 1.81mL each day?

The bird that I feel pooped out the roundworms is definitely beginning her molt. She is not liking being handled either. All of the poop I've picked up in the run and poop board has been worm free for a couple of days now. It's been 3 days now so I may let her off the hook to finish molting and just monitor her closely for a few weeks.

Is there a wormer you prefer over all others during a molt? I know you mentioned Wazine once.

 

[casportpony]

Gotchya. When you say "then I decide how many days I'm gonna treat," if you were going to treat for 3 days, would you divide that 1.81mL over 3 days (0.6mL each day) or would you give 1.81mL each day?

The bird that I feel pooped out the roundworms is definitely beginning her molt. She is not liking being handled either. All of the poop I've picked up in the run and poop board has been worm free for a couple of days now. It's been 3 days now so I may let her off the hook to finish molting and just monitor her closely for a few weeks.

Is there a wormer you prefer over all others during a molt? I know you mentioned Wazine once.

That's the per day dose. This morning I found a poop with roundworms in it. It's in a place where only one or two hens sleep, so I need to decide how I'm going to treat them.

I mentioned Wazine because places like Tractor Supply should have it. Another one you could try is pyrantel pamoate, but that you would have to order, or spend way too much on it at Petsmart or Petco.

 

[CajunFeatherz]

FWIW, I just got done treating a two pound bird and I got 0.5 ml for several days.

This thread and @casportpony has helped me very much. There's a lot of wormer misinfo out there but I trust Kathy knows her stuff and this was a big help.

Can you tell me if the .23mL/pound of bird is also applicable for ducks and what the margin of error is? I am going to have to estimate bird weights for a large flock and do it at night so I don't want to overdose someone accidentally and kill them!