Looking for a male saint bernard

[arabianequine]

My saint will be 2 the beginning of the is next year. I want to breed her. I have been looking to either buy a saint or find a stud.

I found a stud that I may use. I have his pedigree and AKC numbers but how do I find out about him or his family's history?

The pedigrees I seen when I bought my girl....had CH next to her family members names etc. I don't even recognize any of the names on this males pedigree.

 

[FlaRocky]

Sorry.....

Just my opinion, BUT a mutt, is a mutt, is a mutt....

I and ALL other responsible Breeders stand by a code of conduct for our breeds. Yes, I have owned mixes/mutts. But that is what they are, no ifs ands or butts. And I will probably have others and they will still be Mutts.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Maye

 

[redhen]

that makes mortgage loan paperwork look easy..lol

 

[Glenmar]

I used to breed and show champion miniature schnauzers and norfolk terriers. My pet norfolks sold for $2500. I showed my dogs all over the east coast. I have shown at Westminster and the Eukanuba National Championship.

My latest dog is a Great Pyrenees that I bought for $195 from a goat farm in Ohio for the purpose of guarding my goats. No hip testing, not even registered. But she is a great dog.

There is room for breeders of different opinions and quality of dogs.

Give the OP a break. I think she is doing the best she can, and learning how to improve. Everyone realizes that there are more dogs out there than what there are homes for. We all do the best we can. Her dogs look clean and healthy.


ETA: I am also an AKC Breeder Of Merit.

 

[dainerra]

I find it sad that people will spend months researching a TV, DVD player, or other purchase but when it comes to adding a living breathing creature that will live in their home for 10+ years the only consideration is the initial money that they spend and don't consider where the dog came from. "Just a pet" is the most grueling thing that a dog can do.

As for showing, there are many ways to prove that your dog is worthy of breeding. But "oh I think he is just the cutest dog ever" isn't an evaluation. We all think that our dogs are next to perfect. That is why it is important to have an impartial person evaluate your dog.

Honestly, a reputable breeder isn't going to be that much more expensive than your dogs from other sources. Price for a BYB GSD, $600. No health tests, no guarantee, just give me money and get the puppy out of my yard. Price for a dog from a good breeder, $900-$1000 depending on your area. Health tests, dogs evaluated to be stable and healthy. A lifetime of support from the breeder.

Those hunting dogs are a different case. They are hunting dogs - they prove their worth in the field. Do you know any local hunters who say "well, this coonhound couldn't track his way out of a paper bag but I could sell some cute puppies so I'll breed him anyway" Of course not. They stake their reputation on the abilities of their dogs. And an unhealthy dog isn't going to be worth anything in the field either. So that dog isn't going to be bred either. They don't "show" but they do evaluate the dogs carefully. With solid concrete proof of the dog's ability that they can prove to anyone who wants to see it.

The place to get a dog from a BYB is through rescue, where most of them end up anyway. Instead of giving money to someone and encouraging them to breed again, the money goes to the people working hard to clean up the mess they leave behind.

 

[dainerra]

Mods, whatever happened to flaming and trolling? hbwright is a prime example

actually, flaming and trolling is NOTHING like what hbwright is doing. That is one of the biggest things I hate about this forum. It's super-isolated and anyone that doesn't agree 100% with someone else or, God forbid gives a different opinion, is a big old meanie and the mods need to come in and make them shut up.

Go to a dog forum and post the pictures. You'll get blasted just for those puppy pictures (those hair bands are a good way to end up with dead puppies). THEN they will take you to task about the breeding itself. But that still won't be flaming. Flaming is "OMG you are such a stupid *blank blank blank* Were you always this stupid or did you take lessons" etc etc type of conversation. All that anyone in this topic has ever done is disagree with you and point you towards hard evidence of why it was a bad idea.

Trolling is posting something just to stir up trouble - going into BYC and posting a thread titled "I went to my neighbor's chicken coop last night and stomped on all the baby chicks" That is trolling

I'm not sure what your point is with the whole litter not being show quality? Of course not. Dogs aren't widgets popping out of a mold all identical and perfect. The best description I've ever come up with for dog breeding is this "Better to shoot for the moon and miss than to aim for the gutter and hit it." It simply means that you want to start off with the best of the best - sure not all of them will be perfect but the bell curve is going to be higher. It's simply a simple law of averages - start off with two lower quality animals and the best puppy produced will not be better than those parents. Each generation will become less and less of what it should be. Even the occasional fluke puppy that will come out absolutely perfect and show quality in a BYB litter is going to have all the less-than-stellar genes of its parents. So any puppies it produces will be a result of those genes, not the "perfect" dog. That is why it matters what the pedigree says.

Ever met that one person who is bright and smart and funny and headed for great things. Then you meet their family and you're thinking "This awesome guy is related to those wackos?" That is why pedigrees are important. You don't want to be breeding your dog to the only pup in the litter that was worth a dang. Every generation the genes, be they good or bad, are going to be doubled and intensified. A less than perfect dog from a good breeder is still better than the best dog from a bad breeder from a genetic standpoint. Why? because a dog is the sum of all of its parts and all of the dogs that came before it. The chances of genetic problems (HD, heart, thyroid, etc) are going to be less because those dogs aren't bred. You might get one pup out of dozens of dogs that has a problem. Better odds than getting the one dog out of a bad litter that doesn't have a problem.

I'll use GSDs. The breeder I got my dog from has had 1 puppy that came back with hip problems. He has been breeding for 30 years. He also recently lost a pup to Mega-E. Turns out the stud dog owner lied about the stud and knew all along that he was a carrier of that disease.
My neighbor down the street breeds GSDs. The dogs just look WRONG. Yes all of the ancestors are pure GSDs but they were "just cute pets" because that is what they wanted to sell - cute puppies to people who didn't see a need to spend a lot of money on "just a dog". Every litter they lose a couple pups to failure to thrive. Ears don't stand. Dogs are timid and shy. Yes, they make good pets (as long as you don't plan to take the dog out of its comfort zone!) but are they GSDs? On paper they are - they are AKC registered and if you go back far enough in the pedigree you will even find champion dogs. BUT they are losing what makes a GSD a GSD because they aren't working to preserve it. They didn't think that it mattered and that everyone who told them otherwise was just a "big-time breeder who wanted to stop the competition" They love their dogs. They truly do. But they shouldn't be breeding them because they just don't know.

They never have problems selling the puppies and they aren't making a huge profit. They would probably even try to find a new home for it if someone couldn't keep a puppy. But they don't know how much they don't know about the dogs. The vet told them that mom and dad were healthy so why are the puppies dying? The vet shrugs it off and says "it happens" Yes, sometimes it does but every litter losing at least one pup? No, that doesn't happen without a reason. So they finally went out and bought a new female. She's another "just a pet dog" from "just a pet" breeder. The last litter no puppies died so they think that everything is good. Looking at her, I'd say that she probably doesn't have the greatest hips. But hey, "vet said that she was healthy and she's not limping so her hips must be fine"


Punk, by the "historical standards" you mention, all dog breeds are modern. But they were also created with a purpose - to be a better herder, a better LGD, a better retriever. And the standard lists the traits that make the dog what it is and why it is good at its job. Imagine a LGD with a clingy submissive temperament - it would be a crappy LGD, wouldn't it? Even if the personality was correct, imagine it without it's thick double coat - it wouldn't make it through a cold night outside with the livestock. Every piece of the standard has a specific purpose and is what makes the dog a GSD, a Anatolian, a Golden Retriever. Of course, I'm not talking about the made up "breeds" you see advertised now. They don't have standards anyway. It takes generation after generation of dogs producing puppies exactly like themselves to make a breed. The standard isn't a marketing gimmick. It's a blueprint. And while some people may think that certain traits should be emphasized more than another trait (and of course the American attitude of "if a little is good, a lot must be better!) the standard doesn't change. And just because you don't like what one breeder produces doesn't mean that the standard is wrong - it just means that you don't agree with their mental picture. That's the problem with the written word, we are always going to all view what it says differently.

 

[Eggsoteric]

Wow, what a 'helpful' group of folks. I don't necessarily agree with the way the OP chose to make this mating, but I surely don't agree with the didactic, judgemental, rude 'advice' given by several on this thread. There are ways to help, and their are ways to exhibit lack of tact. Arabianequine, I wish you the best of luck with this litter, and hope that you will conduct all the recommended tests on breeding stock prior to any future litters.

Perhaps it would be best if the OP turn to one of the mentors she stated she has as well as her vet for any advice relating to this and any future litters in lieu of posting on a public forum where she is subjecting herself to opposing opinions. Quite honestly, as dainerra pointed out, what "flack" arabianequine has received here, pales in comparison were she to post on a dog forum. AE has received a lot of excellent advice from folks I would deem "responsible" breeders and, save for perhaps the contract, that advice seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

As someone involved in the foster and rescue of large breed dogs, I cannot and will not get excited over yet another litter of pups that no prep or thought went into other than "I have a female dog I'd like to breed..."

 

[punk-a-doodle]

I do not personally feel that dominating a person's thread with polarized thinking and dichotomous choices falls under the category of education, nor that the direct, personal insults coming from both sides are educational. I do not feel educated. I would personally suggest starting a new thread containing personal diatribes on breeding.

 

[dainerra]

unless you have health tested every pup you can't say that you haven't had problems. and few pet homes will spend the money to test unless they are experiencing major issues. Many genetic issues aren't noticeable until the dog is older. Since the natural instinct of the dogs is to hide pain and discomfort, testing is the only way to know for sure

 

[dainerra]

Not raining on parades at all. The contract is to protect her. Sometimes people think that they want a big dog, but then end up over their heads. A contract makes sure that the owners don't just get bored and abondon the pup. Again, nothing to do with "too many dogs" in the world, just some basic guidelines to making sure the pups are healthy.

I said to make sured to have extra homes lined up because I see a LOT of people who say they want a dog until one is available. Then they have a hundred excuses why they won't take one.