➡I accidentally bought Balut eggs: 2 live ducks! Now a Chat Thread!

[littleprairieheartsfarm]

Yep. There’s a very sad misunderstanding regarding kill shelters when in reality it is often the no-kill shelters that hoard money and never end up placing the dogs that rot in their “rescue.”

I personally will never breed a dog for as long as I live due to personal morals, but before my Goldens were fixed it was really not difficult to keep them separated during her cycles. The solution to overpopulation isn’t mandatory desexing (which is a real term), although I fully support making it commonplace especially for the average family dog. What we really need is proper education in the USA regarding responsible animal ownership.

I completely understand the morals aspect. Breeding isn’t an easy task, especially with bulldogs, and it isn’t for the faint of heart. Our dogs have excellent pedigrees and are both suited to the standard which is why we are breeding them. She will only be bred a couple times because we don’t believe in overbreeding. Our male won’t be studded out, and after we are done with litters they’ll both be fixed.
Both are insured, and if some complication were to arise, then they would both be desexed immediately as we don’t really care for having intact dogs if they won’t be bred.

 

[Kiki]

Thank you all.
I feel a whole lot better now, knowing that she isn't suffering and it is over with.
It is not a decision I want to have to go through again any time soon.

I'm so sorry

Cy, your first point is an erroneous generalization. Reputable breeders do sell intact dogs and bitches to reputable owners with either a contract to spay/neuter the pet quality pup or an agreement for show.
Point two...de-sexing is correct terminology...as is sterilization.
Point three and four...age of spaying at 6 months is encouraged by the idea that it is best to stop indescriminate breedings...an idea promoted in the 80s and 90s by vets, spay clinics, etc. It is an easier surgical procedure at 6 months...according to vet friends.
Now research indicates it should be delayed in large breeds for growth, disease prevention, and health. Smaller breeds mature more quickly and spaying can be done before the first heat cycle.
Our adopted Rhodesian Ridgeback was spayed at four months. Her growth plates did not terminate on schedule. Ruby is 3 inches taller than the female height range and has extremely long legs that are already beginning to show arthritis at 4 years of age.
We held spaying Lily, our RR/lab cross until she finished her first heat (keeping her separate from contact with an intact male) until 14 months. She will be protected from a high % of mammary cancer, etc because we waited.
Our dog Red, a Catahoula/lab, is now 12 and suffers from hip dysplasia and severe arthritis because one is hereditary and the other condition because his joints grew at unnatural rates. He was neutered at 5.5 months on the recommendation by our vet.
Bulls are castrated around two months to 6 months to reduce fighting over heifers in closely packed feed yards and to insure that weight gain is consistent in those steers.
Your last three points I will leave to others to address.


Kiki, I'm so sorry for your loss. You made the necessary but hard decision because you cared for your pet.


Amen. I have a list of 25 or more studies that I read in deciding when to spay Lily. I shared a few specific articles with our new vet and she agreed with them and concurred with my request to wait.


Responsible owners do take precautions....heat pant don't keep dogs from breeding....they only help keep spotting on furniture to a minimum. Vigilance is necessary...on a leash any time outside. And a watchful eye on her at all times...males can quickly jump a fence to get to a female.
There are many more important reasons to distrust someone than not sterilizing their pets.


Education about pet care, insuring pets don't breed is going to help reduce those numbers. Animals are only doing what comes naturally to them.
We the owners must take responsibility for our pets.
Many pet owners who allow pets to breed don't take responsibility for the offspring either. Dumping a pregnant dog or cat or the offspring is cruel. Many animals are dumped in the country or high end neighborhoods using the excuse "because farmers need barncats or guard dogs...or children will convince their parents to allow them to keep it". Sadly animals and offspring become ferel or starve.
Circle back to education!

I'm off my soapbox now.

Sorry to hear this.

So sorry

Awww... Sorry, Kiks. Your poor old cow. I'm glad you got to be with her

 

[ShrekDawg]

Early neutering of large breed dogs can lead to growth issues. Male dogs of breeds prone to hip dysplasia and other joint problems are often neutered around 2 years old as they do indeed need certain sex hormones to properly fill out.

Exactly!

2 years!
I sure hope owners are responsible enough to keep them from breeding.

I don't trust people who don't sterilize dogs or cats they don't intend to breed.

Responsible owners are the key. I would never advocate keeping strays or dogs belonging to irresponsible owners intact. You have to be responsible enough to handle it. And sometimes dogs are crazy and need to be fixed earlier. I read recently of someone breeding Rottweilers and they had a contract not to neuter them before I think two or could've been 18 months. Anyway, one Rott I guess was jumping through windows (literally breaking them, not that rare) to get to females down the road, just crazy and a danger to himself, so the breeder had to ammend the contract and make an exception for this family that they could get him neutered earlier. In cases like that, I can understand but otherwise I think it should wait.

And I don't think it's so black and white. Not everyone with intact dogs is irresponsible and not to be trusted.

Also on the other side, I have a friend who didn't spay their female Labrador until she was 15. They only spayed her because she got mammary cancer.

Prime example of how not everyone is irresponsible and not all intact dogs have litters lol although 15 seems kind of late to have a big surgery like that?

All my furry friends (dogs and cats) are spayed and/or neutered.

Mine are two as were the last ones but the next one I'm going to wait.

Same here!
We even spayed the pregnant queen our heartless landlord dumped at our house in the middle of january. After she weaned her kittens, of course.

Aww that's so cruel

Incorrect. Dogs must be intact to participate in AKC shows. Therefore breeders of show quality dogs sell both adults and puppies intact. That doesn’t make them unethical.

Yeah exactly.

I wouldn't know.
I don't watch AKC shows. I find them stupid and boring.

They can be boring and watching on tv isn't so fun but i like going and meeting breeds and breeders.

There are too many dogs and cats in need of homes to keep adding to the problem by breeding more. Unless you're breeding service or work animals or for conservation.

I used to feel the same way but not everybody wants a rescue or a mix. Sometimes they can come with baggage or bad habits and some people like raising a puppy from the beginning so they can train their way and/or some people like the predictability of certain breeds. I also don't really care what people choose as their companion, not my business, and if the breeder and owner are both responsible people then the dog won't end up homeless or in a shelter. Now, having said that, I know that not every dog in rescue hss baggsge or issues, in fact most probably don't, and that there are plenty of puppies and purebreds in rescues. But I still think my next dog will be purebred. Although that said, Libby and Franklin are both amazing dogs, and I think I will rescue some eventually but I think I'll always have both.

I know absolutely nothing about how breeders of dogs, and shows for dogs, and such work. But I did watch one dog show, it was quite boring, but of course that’s just my opinion.

They can be, i like the dog sports better

Thank you for addressing my points
Sorry I went off on a tangent. I can get heated about this. Like I mentioned earlier, I've dealt with irresponsible owners dumping pregnant animals.
I am pro breeding endangered breeds, service dogs and work dogs such as police dogs or search and rescue.
Show.... mmmm... I probably don't understand enough to get with the program.

It's okay! I completely understand and irresponsible owners are definitely a problem but I don't think that is the dog's fault or necessarily a result of it being intact. Intact or not, animals should not be allowed to roam. And if the owner is responsible, they will keep their animal (dog, cat or otherwise) contained to prevent accidental litters or the animal getting hit by a car, attacked by another animal, shot, poisoned, etc.

And tbh, I'm not 100% show, a lot of breeds have been ruined by the AKC and breeding for looks what wins, theres plenty of articles and pictures of some dog breeds 100 years ago versus now that are shocking. And I think most brachy breeds are cruel even though I love them. BUT. I do think dog shows and purebreds have a purpose. And some people just want a predictable companion or perhaps a performance dog. Most mutts could do any of the performance sports (agility, rally, nosework, dock diving, flyball, obedience, tracking, etc. Or even skijoring and bikejoring) and there are lots of mutts not only participating in these but excelling but to be highly competitive, some people might want a dog that has been bred for competition, who's parents and grandparents excelled, etc. Or they might need a working herding dog for the ranch. Or hunting dog.

 

[Tesumph]

I completely understand the morals aspect. Breeding isn’t an easy task, especially with bulldogs, and it isn’t for the faint of heart. Our dogs have excellent pedigrees and are both suited to the standard which is why we are breeding them. She will only be bred a couple times because we don’t believe in overbreeding. Our male won’t be studded out, and after we are done with litters they’ll both be fixed.
Both are insured, and if some complication were to arise, then they would both be desexed immediately as we don’t really care for having intact dogs if they won’t be bred.

Oh I know, you don’t have to explain anything to me Prairie. Your pups (and your pup’s pups) are beautiful, I know how responsible you are!


On another note, this little cat showed up out of nowhere this morning. Bad timing kitty..

 

[ShrekDawg]

As usual, I am behind again and replied before I read them all lol

Yes!!! This! 100% THIS!
We spayed our rescue lab mix Venus and neutered Ruger our English Mastiff much too early, at the vet’s recommendations, but Venus has bad hips at 9 years old, and Ruger is freaks me out some days when he trips. Granted this was before the new research studies came out. Now we won’t fix any future dogs until 18-26 months, moreso towards the latter due to the necessity of the sex hormones to steady out their growth and close the plates.

In horses it is also recommended that colts are not gelded until at least a year, many want to extend it to 18 months or more. This reduces the chances of early onset arthritis because the last horse leg joints do not close until well over a year old, as well as decreases heavy smegma buildup due to the reduced ability for them to drop their penis.

Yeah, Gators had a lot of problems from neutering too early.

Most people who read these studies are likely to keep their dogs from breeding. It’s not that hard. I know it isn’t because we have bulldogs, who are both still intact because we will be breeding them later on, and when our female goes into heat we make sure they don’t even remotely get interested. She wears protective gear to keep our floors, and herself safe from her heat. They are kennelled and kept a safe distance away from each other when kennelled.

The reason shelters are full of dogs is because people aren’t going to them. They don’t want to “support kill shelters” when most kill shelters don’t have a choice. They’re run by the municipality, and whenever someone is surrendering or they get a call, they HAVE to make room. So until they get the support they need, dogs and cats, will always be overfilling their shelters.

Yeah exactly. And sadly some shelters get so many animals in just a week they have to put down a lot

Lol... YOU are gonna start lecturing on ethical animal breeding and responsible showing? Okay.

Not really necessary, I'm pretty sure she knows better and isn't going to do it again now.

Yep. There’s a very sad misunderstanding regarding kill shelters when in reality it is often the no-kill shelters that hoard money and never end up placing the dogs that rot in their “rescue.”

I personally will never breed a dog for as long as I live due to personal morals, but before my Goldens were fixed it was really not difficult to keep them separated during her cycles. The solution to overpopulation isn’t mandatory desexing (which is a real term), although I fully support making it commonplace especially for the average family dog. What we really need is proper education in the USA regarding responsible animal ownership.

Yeah, so many rescues charge crazy high rates or have ridiculous requirements for adoption and I really honestly believe that's a big reason why more people don't adopt. Lots of people try, find it too ridiculous or invasive, and go to breeders instead. Not to mention the whole impulsive, instant gratification culture where we gotta have it now and many people do not want to even wait for a puppy from a reputable breeder and just go to a BYB or pet store (puppy mill). And because of the impulsivity, the dog often gets rehomed when it is no longer cute or when they find it has too much energy. I think irresponsible owners who impulsively buy a cute puppy from the mall then later decide they don't want it or find out they can't handle it are a much bigger problem than reputable breeders and responsible owners who often wait 6 months or a year for a dog from their particular breeder and probably do a lot of research on breeds and breeders beforehand and aren't likely to just dump or give up on their $2000 dog. Breeders are not the problem.

Cy, your first point is an erroneous generalization. Reputable breeders do sell intact dogs and bitches to reputable owners with either a contract to spay/neuter the pet quality pup or an agreement for show.
Point two...de-sexing is correct terminology...as is sterilization.
Point three and four...age of spaying at 6 months is encouraged by the idea that it is best to stop indescriminate breedings...an idea promoted in the 80s and 90s by vets, spay clinics, etc. It is an easier surgical procedure at 6 months...according to vet friends.
Now research indicates it should be delayed in large breeds for growth, disease prevention, and health. Smaller breeds mature more quickly and spaying can be done before the first heat cycle.
Our adopted Rhodesian Ridgeback was spayed at four months. Her growth plates did not terminate on schedule. Ruby is 3 inches taller than the female height range and has extremely long legs that are already beginning to show arthritis at 4 years of age.
We held spaying Lily, our RR/lab cross until she finished her first heat (keeping her separate from contact with an intact male) until 14 months. She will be protected from a high % of mammary cancer, etc because we waited.
Our dog Red, a Catahoula/lab, is now 12 and suffers from hip dysplasia and severe arthritis because one is hereditary and the other condition because his joints grew at unnatural rates. He was neutered at 5.5 months on the recommendation by our vet.
Bulls are castrated around two months to 6 months to reduce fighting over heifers in closely packed feed yards and to insure that weight gain is consistent in those steers.
Your last three points I will leave to others to address.


Kiki, I'm so sorry for your loss. You made the necessary but hard decision because you cared for your pet.


Amen. I have a list of 25 or more studies that I read in deciding when to spay Lily. I shared a few specific articles with our new vet and she agreed with them and concurred with my request to wait.


Responsible owners do take precautions....heat pant don't keep dogs from breeding....they only help keep spotting on furniture to a minimum. Vigilance is necessary...on a leash any time outside. And a watchful eye on her at all times...males can quickly jump a fence to get to a female.
There are many more important reasons to distrust someone than not sterilizing their pets.


Education about pet care, insuring pets don't breed is going to help reduce those numbers. Animals are only doing what comes naturally to them.
We the owners must take responsibility for our pets.
Many pet owners who allow pets to breed don't take responsibility for the offspring either. Dumping a pregnant dog or cat or the offspring is cruel. Many animals are dumped in the country or high end neighborhoods using the excuse "because farmers need barncats or guard dogs...or children will convince their parents to allow them to keep it". Sadly animals and offspring become ferel or starve.
Circle back to education!

I'm off my soapbox now.

Agreed on all points! Gator was neutered at 4 months (he was humping everything and vet said he was plenty big enough for neutering. We didn't knoe enough about puppies or the risks of early neutering. Plus that vet was kinda weird. We have a much better vet now and I do wonder if we had gone to him first if he wouldn't have neutered him so early) and he's had hip issues, ACL injury/knee issues, and now myositis/immune issues which I think is endocrine system related and i can't help but wondering if it is neuter related after reading that one article.

Oh what fun.
Again, I get attacked for what I say.

@Tesumph thanks for the comment. The public just doesn't move on from one characteristic of a person.

I'll probably be booting off until December. I can tell now when a week of being around people can ruin my life.

Sorry you feel attacked, please don't leave.

aww Cy! Don’t leave.

X2

I completely understand the morals aspect. Breeding isn’t an easy task, especially with bulldogs, and it isn’t for the faint of heart. Our dogs have excellent pedigrees and are both suited to the standard which is why we are breeding them. She will only be bred a couple times because we don’t believe in overbreeding. Our male won’t be studded out, and after we are done with litters they’ll both be fixed.
Both are insured, and if some complication were to arise, then they would both be desexed immediately as we don’t really care for having intact dogs if they won’t be bred.

I'm glad you're being responsible

 

[ShrekDawg]

Oh I know, you don’t have to explain anything to me Prairie. Your pups (and your pup’s pups) are beautiful, I know how responsible you are!


On another note, this little cat showed up out of nowhere this morning. Bad timing kitty..
View attachment 1601867

Awww

 

[Kiki]

Oh I know, you don’t have to explain anything to me Prairie. Your pups (and your pup’s pups) are beautiful, I know how responsible you are!


On another note, this little cat showed up out of nowhere this morning. Bad timing kitty..
View attachment 1601867

How is IV?

 

[littleprairieheartsfarm]

Oh I know, you don’t have to explain anything to me Prairie. Your pups (and your pup’s pups) are beautiful, I know how responsible you are!


On another note, this little cat showed up out of nowhere this morning. Bad timing kitty..
View attachment 1601867

Thank ya Tess.

That’s a gorgeous cat. I wonder if it is lost or an actual stray.

 

[The Farmers' Daughter]

Just home from the vet. We put old Fatso to sleep.

 

[Cyprus]

My day just hit disaster. Very, very quickly.

I just found the only two chickens I cared about dead and mauled, pulled through the wire of their coop.

I. Am. A. Mess. I cannot pull myself together, I can't stop crying and I'm losing my mind
The only birds I cared about, dead.