100 Broilers and Fermented Feed Project

[Arielle]

Quote: FF and ACV is the sameish. I start my FF with ACV. Others may do it by catching organisms out of the air-- this is iffy and I"m likely to catch a mold here, so I give the FF a fighting chance with ACV.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I'm betting the farm that hatching ratio is coincidental.
Some years I get mostly girls but since I've been doing FF, I'm getting mostly boys. I don't blame the feed but the luck of the draw.

 

[aoxa]

FF and ACV is the sameish. I start my FF with ACV. Others may do it by catching organisms out of the air-- this is iffy and I"m likely to catch a mold here, so I give the FF a fighting chance with ACV.

I'm fermenting with wild yeasts. If it's really hot, definitely more chances at mold... However, kept at 50F, I get a nice bubble going after 48 hours with wild yeasts. Mold is easy to spot. I've only had issues of mold in the summer.

 

[Beekissed]

I haven't been using ACV at all, and still get high females just by using FF.

It could just be coincidence.

I hatched a bunch of Plymouth Rocks from someone else's eggs and had an extremely high male to female ratio. After they were here for quite a while eating my FF I hatched eggs from the same birds... high female to male ratio..

Again, could just be dumb coincidence. I hatched roughly 50 from my own birds this year, not that many at all... I hatched quite a few from donated hatching eggs though...

We will see this year, as I have an excessive amount of hatching going on.

It's the same. I've noted the FF does exactly the same thing to my eggs that the ACV did in regards to taste...though I never got these ginormous yolks with the ACV. Both yield hard shells though the FF are somewhat more hard.

I've not hatched out any chicks while on the FF but I'd sure like to do so just to see if those monster yolks make a difference in their strength, size, health and vigor. Some reports coming in seem to indicate it turns out some really good chicks with a high survival rate.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Sorry if it sounded like I meant you had mold growing, I sure didn't meant that. More meant to say that I can't catch yeast here, so I add the ACV for a good start.

You are wondering if it is a yeast effect or a ACV effect--- my impression was that ACV had more orgainisms than yeast. Now I"m not so sure. I"m recall the Dr Atkins mentioned that for those iwth yeast allergies to stay clear of vinegars . .

Now I am wondering if my info is incorrect-- does vinegar also contain the same bacteria as typically found in good yougurts with 5-6 strains of "good " bacteria like Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium and the streptococus strains in my powdered supplements???

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I find it interesting that in all the years of nutrition and livestock management, only the ruminants were designated as fermentators. And that is why when I read Atkins over 10years ago I didn't "get" what he was saying-- our guts even in simple monogastrics (or chickens) are not so simiple. Birds raised in barn, given processed feed, and butchered at 8 weekss or put in layer cages never experience the natural food nature intended. ANd the resultis lack of a healthy gut and a lowered state of health. (I'm learning Bee!! I am!!) THe microbes that live in our guts must be like those in the runinants that produce a vast number of vitamins that I expect we can readily absorb (compared to vit pills) and the gut lining would be healthier, and in turn our immune is healthier when we are not in a chronic state of inflammation. Most Americans now live in a chronic state oinflammation, from our guts to our joints, to our artieries. ANd it all starts with the foods we eat.

I make huge strides when I switch to clean meats and veg, and eggs, and only a few high carb starcg vegies-- but all whole foods. Very little processed food. Better sleeping, better thnking, ( cold hands make key stroke difficutl! lol) my blood numbers are GREAT (my HDL moderate) and LDLs very low-- and overall at 188 for cholesterol-- I eat a high portion of meats and fats and eggs along with 2-3 salads a day again. Me bad for a while and wnet back to SAD way of eating, and oops all the health issues started again.

My next move is that withour own eggs and chicken meat, the food is the next level of healthy. Some organic feed in their diet and more grasses.

THis question as been nagging at me-----

Who gets lovely orange yolks with just FF and no access to greens????

 

[Beekissed]

Sorry if it sounded like I meant you had mold growing, I sure didn't meant that. More meant to say that I can't catch yeast here, so I add the ACV for a good start.

You are wondering if it is a yeast effect or a ACV effect--- my impression was that ACV had more orgainisms than yeast. Now I"m not so sure. I"m recall the Dr Atkins mentioned that for those iwth yeast allergies to stay clear of vinegars . .

Now I am wondering if my info is incorrect-- does vinegar also contain the same bacteria as typically found in good yougurts with 5-6 strains of "good " bacteria like Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium and the streptococus strains in my powdered supplements???

Here's a list of the typical microbes found in lactic acid fermentation, of which acetobacter bacillus is a by-product....on page 34 on this link:

http://silvalab.fsnhp.msstate.edu//vinegar_lactic.pdf

And on this link you can see how many different types of acetic acid bacteria there are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid_bacteria

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I find it interesting that in all the years of nutrition and livestock management, only the ruminants were designated as fermentators. And that is why when I read Atkins over 10years ago I didn't "get" what he was saying-- our guts even in simple monogastrics (or chickens) are not so simiple. Birds raised in barn, given processed feed, and butchered at 8 weekss or put in layer cages never experience the natural food nature intended. ANd the resultis lack of a healthy gut and a lowered state of health. (I'm learning Bee!! I am!!) THe microbes that live in our guts must be like those in the runinants that produce a vast number of vitamins that I expect we can readily absorb (compared to vit pills) and the gut lining would be healthier, and in turn our immune is healthier when we are not in a chronic state of inflammation. Most Americans now live in a chronic state oinflammation, from our guts to our joints, to our artieries. ANd it all starts with the foods we eat.

I make huge strides when I switch to clean meats and veg, and eggs, and only a few high carb starcg vegies-- but all whole foods. Very little processed food. Better sleeping, better thnking, ( cold hands make key stroke difficutl! lol) my blood numbers are GREAT (my HDL moderate) and LDLs very low-- and overall at 188 for cholesterol-- I eat a high portion of meats and fats and eggs along with 2-3 salads a day again. Me bad for a while and wnet back to SAD way of eating, and oops all the health issues started again.

My next move is that withour own eggs and chicken meat, the food is the next level of healthy. Some organic feed in their diet and more grasses.

THis question as been nagging at me-----

Who gets lovely orange yolks with just FF and no access to greens????

I love your rant. I'm in the same camp.

As far as orange yolks, perhaps fodder in the dead of winter.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I'll have a look Bee-- I do wonder which microbes are in commerically prepared ACV like braggs, as they are not required to list it, nor the concentration. . . .

Quote: My lawn grasses don't mind the winter and are still more green than brown. So my girls are laying orange eggs in the dead of winter.

I am trying to figure out if FF makes the yolks orange,
OR if a green material full of VIt A is necessary to get the ORANGE yolks?

 

[foreverlearning]

I'll have a look Bee-- I do wonder which microbes are in commerically prepared ACV like braggs, as they are not required to list it, nor the concentration. . . .

I don't know what exactly they have in them but I do know the braggs brand makes for a faster fermentation then heintz brand.