A Bielefelder Thread !

[Bine]

Okay, so we are in the middle of the discussion about livestock/pet breeding. Breeding is the art of binding certain qualities together and creating a more or less uniform phenotype and stable genotype, so that every generation replicates the qualities you desire.
And the qualities you desire can be quite different from the qualities I wish to see in my birds. So, if you only want a bird that lays big eggs and makes a good table bird, than color is nothing you will breed for. You will breed the best laying hens to your biggest rooster and you will be okay with what ever the color the chicks will have, right? Or maybe you want to preserve the auto-sexing, too.
The auto-sexing color will get lost, if we only breed for eggs and meat. One white feather is not the end of the auto-sexing feature, but soon one feather multiplies into a bunch of white and .... you know what I mean.
Body shape, o/c you will breed for a body shape that is good for meat, but a good laying hen has a total different shape.. Look at the commercial hybirds. You can see form afar what type of hybird someone has, they are so different in shape. The dual purpose breeds try to find a compromise that helps the hen lay eggs and brings engouh bone (!) and muscle to support a big bird. A bird that still can walk and run and hopp around without all the cruel side effects for the life quality of the birds we see in commerical meat birds. Every dual purpose breed has found a different shape that supports the hens and brings good meat quality on/in the roosters. So you should breed to one of these shapes... and if you breed to one of these, why not breeding to the shape the Standard asks for?
In short: Breeding to the Standard will make it easier for you to produce the bird you want.
And if you miss some importent qualities in your birds, well. This is fine, too. That way the Australiens brought us the Australorps. Why not a Idafelder, a more heat tollerant Bielezona....?

 

[TNBielefelder]

Chicken people rule!!! Woohoo!

Seriously though...chicken people get me. Non-chicken people...they wrinkle up their noses at me and say, "You own chickens?" like I just said I eat live maggots or something.

Lol... you had me rolling on that one.

 

[TNBielefelder]

I have been looking at two different breeding ideas for my Bielefelders. Plan to hatch some blue Bielefelders and plan to hatch some Red Rocks. I will call them red rocks because I will be breeding Bielefelders with red hens that lay excellent and they should be a barred red chicken.

 

[UGLYFOOT]

@Bine Thank you. I have raised livestock before when i was younger for 4H, and get the ideas of purebreds keeping certain qualities and why it's important. I never ventured into chickens in the past. Life is always a learning experience. I am looking forward to preserving a beautiful breed of quality birds.

 

[bluejean55girl]

Blue bielefelder?

 

[Bridebeliever]

I have been looking at two different breeding ideas for my Bielefelders. Plan to hatch some blue Bielefelders and plan to hatch some Red Rocks. I will call them red rocks because I will be breeding  Bielefelders with red hens that lay excellent and they should be a barred red chicken.

No, no, no....they should be called Rockafelders! LOL

 

[DesertChic]

No, no, no....they should be called Rockafelders! LOL

LOL! Love it!

 

[DesertChic]

Okay, so we are in the middle of the discussion about livestock/pet breeding. Breeding is the art of binding certain qualities together and creating a more or less uniform phenotype and stable genotype, so that every generation replicates the qualities you desire.
And the qualities you desire can be quite different from the qualities I wish to see in my birds. So, if you only want a bird that lays big eggs and makes a good table bird, than color is nothing you will breed for. You will breed the best laying hens to your biggest rooster and you will be okay with what ever the color the chicks will have, right? Or maybe you want to preserve the auto-sexing, too.
The auto-sexing color will get lost, if we only breed for eggs and meat. One white feather is not the end of the auto-sexing feature, but soon one feather multiplies into a bunch of white and .... you know what I mean.
Body shape, o/c you will breed for a body shape that is good for meat, but a good laying hen has a total different shape.. Look at the commercial hybirds. You can see form afar what type of hybird someone has, they are so different in shape. The dual purpose breeds try to find a compromise that helps the hen lay eggs and brings engouh bone (!) and muscle to support a big bird. A bird that still can walk and run and hopp around without all the cruel side effects for the life quality of the birds we see in commerical meat birds. Every dual purpose breed has found a different shape that supports the hens and brings good meat quality on/in the roosters. So you should breed to one of these shapes... and if you breed to one of these, why not breeding to the shape the Standard asks for?
In short: Breeding to the Standard will make it easier for you to produce the bird you want.
And if you miss some importent qualities in your birds, well. This is fine, too. That way the Australiens brought us the Australorps. Why not a Idafelder, a more heat tollerant Bielezona....?

@UGLYFOOT - Outstanding question, and outstanding response from @Bine . I've participated in this exact discussion on the Breeding for Production threat and benefited from the perspective of multiple sagacious chicken owners. If I may be so bold as to add just a couple points that have been impressed upon me:

• First - a dual purpose bird does not equate to an ideal meat bird or an ideal egg laying bird. It is a compromise that typically results in an adequate bird for both meat and eggs without being exceptional in either category. It's a good, all-around bird for meeting the needs of the average homesteader.

• Second - within any breed, selection can easily be made to emphasize one function over another. I'm currently doing this with my primary flock of Naked Neck Turkens. I have one line I'm breeding for their egg production and another line for their meat. While all of these birds are NNs of varying colors, the two lines have very different body types, with the egg layers tending towards leaner, sleeker frames and the meat birds showing heftier breasts, legs and thighs. I'm also maintaining of line of pure NNs that I'm trying to breed to as close to standard as possible to help with "correcting" any breeding issues that may arise in my other two lines.

• Third - SOP standards provide a great starting point for learning about any breed, but it seems to be increasingly rare to find that "perfect bird", so don't let the standards stress you out so badly over your "sub-par" birds as to be unable to appreciate them for what they are. Breeding to standard takes time, dedication, determination, and a willingness to cull heavily, which some of us have a hard time doing. (I'm still working on this myself.) If you want to promote a breed, then breeding to standard does a GREAT service to the breed and those interested in purchasing chicks from you. If you just want a really nice flock of birds to enjoy, then relax and enjoy what you have no matter what.

As a side note...@Bine I'm trying to breed a more heat tolerant version of the Bielefelder. My flock is small as I culled those who showed the greatest weakness,and I will be watching them intently this summer to see how they continue to tolerate our sometimes overwhelming summer heat. If they perform better this year than last year I will commence with breeding. If not....I wholeheartedly enjoy these birds and will retain them as pets and for other breeding projects, but will leave the pure breeding to those in better climates. (I'll definitely be crossing them with NNs. I cross everything with NNs.) I'm also going hoping to be able to work with my Biel/Silkie crosses a little more. They're really adorable bantams!

 

[jbkirk]

I guess I am confused. I want to promote a breed that is truly a dual purpose chicken for the homesteader that is looking for a egg producer and also a meat bird. What difference does it make if a white feather or other color shows up here and there? If the hens lay huge brown eggs and the offspring are suitable for the table why should feathers be a problem... I am not trying to be argumentative! I am just trying to understand why things like that matter?

It matters if you want to make a living selling your birds, now I'm not saying that if you don't do it this way you will fail, but you'll lose the customers who want single(show) or triple (show and dual purpose)purpose birds, AND once your birds get to a certain point they will not be considered Beile's but mutts because of all the differences.

I wouldn't be surprised if the birds that I got are Beilefelder/something because of the size of the eggs and the white tail feathers.

 

[Bine]

@DesertChic I would love to see some pics of the Biel/Silkies. Do they still have this peach/golden color? And I it would be great, if you could make the Bielefelders a little more heat tolerant. I stumbled over the Dandarawi Fowl and thought: This could be a breed for you and your crossing projekts. As far a I know we have only two breeders here in Germany. And besides that they are pretty resistant when it comes to disease, that they love the summer heat and that they are autosexing, I couldn't find much on the internet. But maybe someone in the US has this breed,