A century of Turkey talk 2000-2100.

[Chaos18]

I thought recessive ngng, was sex-linked, along with ee-brown

If I read that correctly, then Copper was right the cg must be sex linked or recessive? I am just guessing here. Copper Help?

A female is WZ a male is ZZ, So if the cg attaches to the W only it would only appear in females. Is that right Copper? If it is recessive and attaches to the W whatever is dominant would take over, but then it should be written CG. so I am guessing it is the former?



Now did I really confuse everyone?

It would appear that Copper was right or at least more right than I was in the above quoted post about the ngng being sex-linked than as only some of the toms and none of the hens would be (split: Narragansett(n)) but if the ngng is sex-linked than why wouldn't all of the toms from the crossings be (split: Narragansett(n))?

 

[dheltzel]

I decided to go mess with the calculator myself...again...so as to not further muddy the waters. It seems if you do a Sweetgrass tom (b1b1 cgcg dd EE NN RR SlSl SpSp PnPn) over a Royal Palm hen (b1b1 cgcg dd E- n- RR SlSl SpSp PnPn) you will get pure Sweetgrass hens and Sweetgrass toms that are (split: Narragansett(n)). It seems no matter what male and female combo you work with when breeding royal palms and sweetgrass only the sweetgrass toms will have a chance of being (split: Narragansett(n)). So here's another question than. Why would only some of the sweetgrass toms be (split: Narragansett(n)) and not all of them and why only the toms?

The N gene is sexlinked, like barring and gold/silver in chickens. Just as a female chicken can only have one copy of the barring gene, so a turkey hen can only have one copy of N and their phenotype will always show the "value" of that gene. You can make sexlinked turkeys if you understand the genetics, a sweetgrass hen crossed to a RP tom will produce all RP hens and toms that are split, but look like SG's because N is dominant over n.

I use RP's and Black mottleds to do something similar, last year my RP tom over BM hens produced both colors of both sexes.

Edit: that last line is confusing, only N and E (brown) are sexlinked in turkeys, not the (B) bronze/black that I am varying to get RP's and Mottleds (B is an incomplete dominant, like BBS blue in chickens). So, my cross is not that similar, other than using RP's as one of the parents, both my colors are pure for "n".

 

[Chaos18]

The N gene is sexlinked, like barring and gold/silver in chickens. Just as a female chicken can only have one copy of the barring gene, so a turkey hen can only have one copy of N and their phenotype will always show the "value" of that gene. You can make sexlinked turkeys if you understand the genetics, a sweetgrass hen crossed to a RP tom will produce all RP hens and toms that are split, but look like SG's because N is dominant over n.

I use RP's and Black mottleds to do something similar, last year my RP tom over BM hens produced both colors of both sexes.

Since you brought up chickens how is it possible to breed two genetically different turkeys and end up with two different kinds (see the example above that you gave) but when you breed two genetically different chickens all you get are mutts?

 

[duluthralphie]

Chickens are breeds and turkeys are for the most part variations. I am guessing again, that some egghead way above our pay grade decided which would be which.

I assume it has to do with the genetic variation between turkeys versus chickens.

 

[duluthralphie]

I am thinking of doing my breeding differently this year. What are your thoughts on this.

Instead of locking the toms in with the hens full time, I am thinking about putting the Toms in about once a week to do their job. Will this work? It would make breeding less of a hassle to me.

 

[Chaos18]

Chickens are breeds and turkeys are for the most part variations. I am guessing again, that some egghead way above our pay grade decided which would be which.

I assume it has to do with the genetic variation between turkeys versus chickens.

This would make more sense except for there are small skinny turkeys and really big fat turkeys. Although I guess you can't count the BB in the same pool as the heritage so what would explain the variations between say the midget white and a sweetgrass?

 

[Chaos18]

I am thinking of doing my breeding differently this year. What are your thoughts on this.

Instead of locking the toms in with the hens full time, I am thinking about putting the Toms in about once a week to do their job. Will this work? It would make breeding less of a hassle to me.

Wouldn't that make it a bigger hassle because you'd have to constantly be moving birds instead of just throwing everybody in there appropriate pens? Also don't know if that would work as I have no clue how long there swimmers are actually swimmers and not floaters. Maybe your new BFF Mr. Porter would know.

 

[duluthralphie]

I will wait until my BFF and I are on a first name basis before I ask him.


When I put the toms in full time and because of my pens or lack of pens, I had to let one set of breeders free range. When I did this the Toms would try to fight through the fence on the pens. I ended up with Toms that wore all the feathers off their breasts. If I just put them in with the hen or hens I want them to be with I can use smaller pens. Many hens could do just fine in a smaller tractor.coop. whereas my Toms are bigger and would need more room full time, but a few hours in a small pen with a cute little hen would not bother them.

 

[duluthralphie]

I am shocked at the way you guys treat poor me!

If I get this much poop over a few turkey things with Mr. Porter, how are you going to act when I come back with my new wife from the Grand Ol opry?

 

[dheltzel]

Quote:

Since you brought up chickens how is it possible to breed two genetically different turkeys and end up with two different kinds (see the example above that you gave) but when you breed two genetically different chickens all you get are mutts?

It's a distinction without a difference - it all boils down to marketing and opinions. To borrow an example from the dog world, a Goldendoodle is a "mutt", not a purebred, but they are specifically bred and marketed, and so command a much higher price than anything designated as a "mutt".

Red and brown sexlinks, Freedom Rangers, etc are not breeds in the eyes of many, but they are certainly not mutts in a commercial sense. My crossing of a (probably impure) RP to my Porter-bred Mottled Black hens gave me a few surprises. I certainly have some phenotypically pure Mottled Blacks and RP's, but I also have some that I think would be called (on the Porter site) Silver Dappled or Mottled Silver Dapple (probably the later, given the parent genetics). According to Porter's info, the later will produce:
"Mottled Silver Dapple, Silver Dapple, Marbled Black, Mottled Black, Royal Palm and also White."

I refuse to call them mutts, they are far too pretty and well mannered for that, but that sort of variation in the offspring of a chicken or dog would indicate a rather mixed up parentage. The turkey enthusiast community is lucky to have Kevin Porter documenting and naming all these variations so we don't have to resort to designations like "barnyard mix", which is rather denigrating to the bird, IMO.

If anyone local to me is interested in any of those colors, let me know. I will probably not be able to tell the difference as poults, they will be either black or white/RP.