Abacot and Silver (Spotty and Snowy) Call duck Thread - Genetics, etc...

[UBF]

No, I think it does have a light phase.

So your Silver doesn't have the light phase gene like our Spots do? That would then make them a whole other new color, technically, and not the same as our Spot.

 

[Pyxis]

No, I think it does have a light phase.

Ah cool, so they must be 'silver spot', which is dusky light phase harlequin. Haha, how's that for a mouthful?

Edit: Actually they must have light phase too if they only also have one copy of harlequin. Dusky with one copy of harlequin and then one copy of M+ would just make them dusky gray (or dusky mallard, as I believe you guys call it).

 

[UBF]

So, basically:
1 harlequin gene = Harlequin gene
2 harlequin genes = Abacot gene
The abacot colouration gene is created when 2 harlequin genes are present.
You would say they are carrying ACG when there are 2 copies of the gene present.

Just a quick question, since the two alleles for harlequin are inherited separately, and the gene is already called harlequin, how come you guys call it by the name of 'ACG'? You only call it that name when they have two copies? If so, what would you say when they are only carrying the harlequin gene? Would you say they're carrying 'ACG'? But it sounds like you only call it 'ACG' when two of the alleles are present in a double dose, so probably not?

 

[UBF]

Yep, the chocolate gene is recessive.

The chocolate gene is always recessive It's also sex linked, so females can only ever inherit one copy, and it always expresses due to that. Males can inherit two copies, so they can carry it without expressing.

The reason that duck has a bib is because he's on the Extended Black base, E, which has bibbing linked to it. He doesn't actually carry white (I know that because I know his parents, haha).

 

[WVduckchick]

You can't get snowy without the harlequin gene, so to get snowy from a gray, you need to either already have a snowy to cross to it, or another color that has the harlequin gene like Spot, or a duck you know to be carrying harlequin.

Same with Spot, only in that case you also need one li Light Phase gene too, and the same applies to it as to harlequin. It needs to already be there or you need to have a duck you know carries it.



Yes, I'd always read in books and online that Silver in the UK was our Snowy. That is why I said that in the original thread that spawned this one. But if the genotype of Abacot is this:

M+M+ li^h li^h e+e+ bl+bl+ C+C+ B+B+ r+r+ D+D+ Bu+Bu+

As @Upper Brook House Farm says, then that is indeed the same as our snowy.

Speaking of which, @Upper Brook House Farm I was going to ask in the other thread but didn't want to derail it further. What is the genotype of your Silver ducks?

Thanks.

 

[UBF]

Hope this helps?

Thanks.

 

[Pyxis]

So, basically:
1 harlequin gene = Harlequin gene
2 harlequin genes = Abacot gene
The abacot colouration gene is created when 2 harlequin genes are present.
You would say they are carrying ACG when there are 2 copies of the gene present.

So in that case, they actually can't 'carry' it, since with two copies it expresses? Sorry, I'm just not used to it being used like that, lol. Here we wouldn't call the harlequin gene the 'snowy color gene' if they had two copies. We would just say they're snowy, and so they have two copies of the harlequin allele. So it's odd to me that it's called one thing when it's only present in one copy, but then suddenly has a new name when there are two copies present. It's still the same gene.

But I get that someone at some point must have decided to say it that way, and it must have stuck and that's just how you guys do it now. I just fear it could confuse someone into thinking it's a totally separate new gene, when it's not. That's why I was trying to clarify.

 

[WVduckchick]

Hope this helps?

Yes, she did help. I was trying to ask what combinations of the more common varieties could be bred together to get to Snowy, since Snowys are less common here. I only used Gray as a random starting point. I didn’t really word my question well, but the answer helped anyway. Thanks.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

Guess it would've helped if I'd given more information
Thanks you guys color genetics are so fascinating!

 

[WVduckchick]

So in that case, they actually can't 'carry' it, since with two copies it expresses? Sorry, I'm just not used to it being used like that, lol. Here we wouldn't call the harlequin gene the 'snowy color gene' if they had two copies. We would just say they're snowy, and so they have two copies of the harlequin allele. So it's odd to me that it's called one thing when it's only present in one copy, but then suddenly has a new name when there are two copies present. It's still the same gene.

But I get that someone at some point must have decided to say it that way, and it must have stuck and that's just how you guys do it now. I just fear it could confuse someone into thinking it's a totally separate new gene, when it's not. That's why I was trying to clarify.

The UK/US differences drive me nuts in the calls. Like Shaw said, I wish we could all use the same terms.