Adding Naked Neck (Turkens) into Breeding Program

[davidmpenning]

Has anyone tried (or thought about) adding some Turkeys/Naked Neck gene into their sustainable meat program? From what I’ve read, the NN gene carries so many benefits - easier plucking, more meat production (especially in the breast), more resistant to diseases, great mothers, good taste, friendly, etc.

But as a whole, NNs generally don’t get as big as other meat birds (New Hampshire, Bresse, Delaware, Buckeye, etc.) - that is, unless you can find a breeder that has size as part of their program.

So the way I see it, if the NN gene was added into one of those gene pools of a different breed (or few breeds), wouldn’t it theoretically make those meat birds that much better for processing and sustainability? I know this loses the “purebred” aspect of those other breeds, but my main desire is for better, sustainable meat.

And if you were to do this, would you bring the NN gene in with a cock (and the hens be a different breed) or with NN hens (and the cock would be a different breed)?

Thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner]

have you ever tried to roast, grill, or fry the younger cockerels (<18 weeks)?

That's a fair question. Mom would regularly fry hens, not just pullets. She had her own methods and I'm not sure what they were other than using lots of lard and keeping it covered while she fried it. I'm sure she had her tricks. But with the older boys it was usually some kind of stew. Frying the boys was pretty limited but we didn't keep that close track of the actual age. Mom just knew how to cook and we were used to how she cooked it.

When I first got my flock right after I retired, I tried frying a cockerel that was about 16 weeks old. It was not fried in lard, used vegetable oil and not a lot of that. I did not think it was horrible but it was kinda tough, certainly not like Mom's fried chicken. My wife didn't like it at all so that was the end of that.

I base a lot of my opinions on the topic from what I read on here. I've read several posts where people tried grilling or frying a cockerel and it was either shoe leather or otherwise inedible. I don't know how (or even if) they aged it, brined it, or marinaded it. I don't know what cooking methods they tried, there is more than one way to fry or grill chicken. Because of all the unknowns I try to not give specific ages for various methods, I believe trial and error is a good method to determine what works for you. I suspect you can get good results with the older cockerels if you prepare them and cook them right.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I've never raised NN but I feel my comments will cover any breed.

From what I’ve read, the NN gene carries so many benefits

When I see "from what I read" my first thought is that you will read a lot of different things if you read much. We all have different personal preferences and conditions that our opinions can be all over the place. Where did you get your original stock, how you feed and manage them, what age you butcher and how you cook them, what are you comparing them to, your expectations, lot's of things can cause us to have have different opinions. I agree it is a good idea to ask others about their experiences, that can help you avoid traps, but ultimately you have to decide if their conditions actually match yours closely enough to really apply. The only way to know for sure is to try it yourself and see how they work for you.

But as a whole, NNs generally don’t get as big as other meat birds (New Hampshire, Bresse, Delaware, Buckeye, etc.) - that is, unless you can find a breeder that has size as part of their program.

The same can be said for New Hampshire, Bresse, Delaware, Buckeye, etc. There will be a huge difference in the quality of the stock of any breed depending on where you get it and how well it matches your goals.

I know this loses the “purebred” aspect of those other breeds, but my main desire is for better, sustainable meat.

To me the only reason for keeping a "purebred", other than personal preference, is if you are breeding for show or maybe you think you can get more if you are selling hatching eggs or baby chicks when they are purebred. I fail to see where breed versus mixed breed has any relevance after it is butchered.

And if you were to do this, would you bring the NN gene in with a cock (and the hens be a different breed) or with NN hens (and the cock would be a different breed)?

I can't think of anything sex linked with a NN that it would matter from that aspect. Both males and females contribute genetically to how the offspring will develop. I'll assume you are only eating the boys and have something else in mind for the girls.

The girls have a different body shape and size so it can be hard to determine what they actually contribute to the final size and body composition of the cockerels. If you know what their fathers and grandfathers look like you can get some clues. Since roosters don't lay eggs you need to know something about how their mothers and grandmothers laid to get an idea what the boys might contribute genetically to that. That's why you often read if you are breeding for eggs look to the hens, if you are breeding for meat look to the roosters. But if you have a multigenerational project you can kind of do both.

You could go either way. Use a high quality rooster from another breed over NN hens and select your best offspring for breeding. I'd be tempted to get several NN boys so I had more to select from and put the best over an assortment of hens to see what you liked best. Since the girls contribute just as much to the meat bird qualities to the offspring as the boys, the better stock you start off with on that side the better off you are for your project.

 

[Parront]

You might like to read this thread from someone who did something like you are asking about:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/21781265/
I have a bird from that line that was hatched by a NN owner, she bred the Red Ranger x Dorking hen with her large NN cock, this hen of mine was one of the resulting chicks. She seemed to grow much faster than her age mates, and is still larger. I thought she was male at first. She lays well, nice large light tan eggs. The white NN in the photo has a colored egg from her mother, same cock. Much smaller.

 

[davidmpenning]

I've never raised NN but I feel my comments will cover any breed.


When I see "from what I read" my first thought is that you will read a lot of different things if you read much. We all have different personal preferences and conditions that our opinions can be all over the place. Where did you get your original stock, how you feed and manage them, what age you butcher and how you cook them, what are you comparing them to, your expectations, lot's of things can cause us to have have different opinions. I agree it is a good idea to ask others about their experiences, that can help you avoid traps, but ultimately you have to decide if their conditions actually match yours closely enough to really apply. The only way to know for sure is to try it yourself and see how they work for you.


The same can be said for New Hampshire, Bresse, Delaware, Buckeye, etc. There will be a huge difference in the quality of the stock of any breed depending on where you get it and how well it matches your goals.


To me the only reason for keeping a "purebred", other than personal preference, is if you are breeding for show or maybe you think you can get more if you are selling hatching eggs or baby chicks when they are purebred. I fail to see where breed versus mixed breed has any relevance after it is butchered.


I can't think of anything sex linked with a NN that it would matter from that aspect. Both males and females contribute genetically to how the offspring will develop. I'll assume you are only eating the boys and have something else in mind for the girls.

The girls have a different body shape and size so it can be hard to determine what they actually contribute to the final size and body composition of the cockerels. If you know what their fathers and grandfathers look like you can get some clues. Since roosters don't lay eggs you need to know something about how their mothers and grandmothers laid to get an idea what the boys might contribute genetically to that. That's why you often read if you are breeding for eggs look to the hens, if you are breeding for meat look to the roosters. But if you have a multigenerational project you can kind of do both.

You could go either way. Use a high quality rooster from another breed over NN hens and select your best offspring for breeding. I'd be tempted to get several NN boys so I had more to select from and put the best over an assortment of hens to see what you liked best. Since the girls contribute just as much to the meat bird qualities to the offspring as the boys, the better stock you start off with on that side the better off you are for your project.

I know I’m way off-topic from my original thread, but I’ve been reading hundred and hundreds of threads and posts over quite a few months now, trying to learn as much as I can about the whole process - which is where this thread’s question about NNs came in.

And I didn’t realize it at first, but I just realized that I’ve seen so many of your posts and have saved them for future reference! Thanks for being active for all these years. I’ve actually learned a lot from your posts and comments

But I have another for you, if you’re willing: have you ever tried to roast, grill, or fry the younger cockerels (<18 weeks)?

I’ve saved your instructions for the 16-23 wk cockerels in the oven, but I’m wondering if you maybe tried the other ways and they didn’t work. The more I read about heritage breeds, the more I’m starting to find that people still roast and fry them (and a few stories about grilling), with good results up to 18-20 weeks.

Again, thanks for all you’ve taught me these past 3-6 months!

 

[Molpet]

Actually NN have good meat quality in this study of a few heritage hatchery https://projects.sare.org/project-reports/fnc12-866/

 

[Hamburg]

Dunlap Hatchery used to advertise NN meat birds. You would think they would be on the larger size. Last time I was on their site I didn't see them. The french have a government controlled meat program (poulet rouge) that the best I can tell would be a NN X freedom ranger in this country.

 

[Hamburg]

 

[BlueBaby]

I live out here in the desert, and these can handle the heat better. They are also able to handle colder places, although if you live in a cold climate, I would mix (cross-breed) them with other shorter combed breed's. You can also cross-breed them to bigger sized bird's if you are looking for an even heavier meat bird for your flock. I have mixed mine with other breed's to be able to have a more colorful feathered flock, along with getting the hen's to lay bigger sized egg's or even different colored egg's. They are a good meat bird if you need or want to be able to eat the extra boy's that hatch. I try to breed mine so that the boy's are more non-aggressive to people. I'm addicted to hatching chick's.

Here is a link that can fill you in on more about them.
https://insteading.com/chickens/breeds/naked-neck/

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Mine turn out nice (certainly not CX sized, but decent). They're from Hoover's and murray mcMurray (ironically my beginning males from one and beginning females from the other, all by chance). I don't weigh my birds for the most part, but they do have some weight and meat on them