All flock vs layer feed??

[chayes04]

So we’ve got a mixed flock, 2 Roos, 4 hens, and 4 pullets (about 17-18 weeks roughly)

We recently integrated our pullets into the flock. The younger ladies have been on chick starter but since being in with everyone else, they’ve been eating the layer feed.

1. Is it safe for our younger ladies to eat the layer feed? If not, will having chick starter available make a difference?

2. We’re switching over to all flock feed because I’ve seen some different posts about the calcium content in layer feed being bad for our boys kidney? I’d rather be safe than sorry. Can anyone explain the nutritional information behind this?? (We’ll be feeding back egg shells for our girls for extra calcium)

 

[NatJ]

So we’ve got a mixed flock, 2 Roos, 4 hens, and 4 pullets (about 17-18 weeks roughly)

We recently integrated our pullets into the flock. The younger ladies have been on chick starter but since being in with everyone else, they’ve been eating the layer feed.

1. Is it safe for our younger ladies to eat the layer feed? If not, will having chick starter available make a difference?

Given the age of the pullets, layer feed will probably be fine.

If you put out chick starter too, all the chickens will probably eat it. That will not hurt any of them, but you do need to be sure there is a separate source of calcium so the layers can get enough (a dish of free-choice oyster shell usually works well. Chickens tend to be good at eating the right amount for their own needs.)

2. We’re switching over to all flock feed because I’ve seen some different posts about the calcium content in layer feed being bad for our boys kidney? I’d rather be safe than sorry. Can anyone explain the nutritional information behind this?? (We’ll be feeding back egg shells for our girls for extra calcium)

Laying hens need about three times as much calcium as any other chickens. If layer feed has the right amount of calcium for the layers, then it has much more than the males need.

All Flock or Chick Starter is fine for chicks, fine for males of any age, fine for non-laying hens, and almost fine for laying hens. The laying hens need an additional source of calcium.

Feeding back the egg shells from their own eggs is fine, but will not provide enough calcium for the layers. You will need to provide oyster shell as well, or else get more eggshells. They should have a calcium source (oyster shell or eggshell) available at all times, never running out.

I think of it this way:
--all flock has about 1/3 of the calcium a hen needs each day
--eating the shell from 1 egg provides about 1/3 of the calcium a hen needs each day
--That means the hen has 2/3 of the calcium she needs for the day, but still needs more (from oyster shell, or from eating more eggshells.)

(I looked up all the numbers at some point, figured it out in detail, and then remembered the simple version while forgetting the exact numbers.)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So we’ve got a mixed flock, 2 Roos, 4 hens, and 4 pullets (about 17-18 weeks roughly)

We recently integrated our pullets into the flock. The younger ladies have been on chick starter but since being in with everyone else, they’ve been eating the layer feed.

1. Is it safe for our younger ladies to eat the layer feed? If not, will having chick starter available make a difference?

2. We’re switching over to all flock feed because I’ve seen some different posts about the calcium content in layer feed being bad for our boys kidney? I’d rather be safe than sorry. Can anyone explain the nutritional information behind this?? (We’ll be feeding back egg shells for our girls for extra calcium)

Welcome to BYC @chayes04 . Most of us here, for most flocks, will recommend an "all flock" type formulation for all ages, all breeds, all genders all their lives, plus free choice oyster shell and free choice fresh clean water. Here's the high level summary. Its a common question around here.

Happy to address specific questions.

1) Yes, its reasonably safe, but not recommended. The older your girls are when they start eating "layer" before they are actually laying, the less likely there will be any effect all all. The younger they are, the more likely they will be affected, but mostly in ways that you will never notice (a little smaller, a little less well put together).

2) Yes, excess calcium is bad for everyone who doesn't need it. Again, age when starting, dosage, period of excess are all factors in how severely a given bird will be affected. And again, many of those consequences are easily overlooked if you don't know what to look for.

 

[Ted Brown]

I have 12 Chantecler chicks that are 15 weeks old. I have run out of starter feed ((Purina Gold'n Harvest Crumbles). The Purina feed has 1% calcium.

I use a 18% protein layer mash for my hens with a side of oyster shell in separate container, the calcium content is 3.34%.

1. I have only one previous experience with Chantecler chicks, they began to lay at 21-22 weeks. Should I buy another bag of starter feed?​
2. Is the calcium content of the layer mash too high for my rooster?​

 

[NatJ]

I have 12 Chantecler chicks that are 15 weeks old. I have run out of starter feed ((Purina Gold'n Harvest Crumbles). The Purina feed has 1% calcium.

I use a 18% protein layer mash for my hens with a side of oyster shell in separate container, the calcium content is 3.34%.

1. I have only one previous experience with Chantecler chicks, they began to lay at 21-22 weeks. Should I buy another bag of starter feed?​
2. Is the calcium content of the layer mash too high for my rooster?​

I would buy another bag of starter feed for your current pullets.

The calcium in the layer mash is definitely high enough to be a concern for the rooster. It is not going to kill him instantly, but he is likely to end up with kidney damage if he eats it for a long time (months or years.) I can't say whether that damage will be enough to make much difference-- many roosters get butchered, or killed by a predator, before they would actually show enough damage to matter very much.

If you are already providing a separate dish of oyster shell, you could use chick starter instead of layer mash for laying hens as well. They will go through the oyster shell faster if they are eating the lower-calcium food (chick starter or flock raiser or all flock), but that just means you have to refill the oyster shell more frequently.

 

[Ted Brown]

@NatJ thank you!

My rooster is key to my flock plans and is a quality specimen that I invested time to aquire.

I will switch to the Purina Gold'n for everyone and depend on the side dish of oyster shells for my hens.

 

[aart]

I will switch to the Purina Gold'n for everyone and depend on the side dish of oyster shells for my hens.

That's got 4% calcium...it's a layer feed.

I've used a 20% all flock type(1-2% calcium) feed for all my birds for 10 years,
with Oyster Shell in a separate dispenser for the active layers.
Remember your older birds will stop laying for winter, they won't need that extra calcium then..

 

[Ted Brown]

That's got 4% calcium...it's a layer feed.
...

The label for the Purina Gold'n feed says 1% calcium. It is manufactured in Canada, perhaps a different mix?

Natj and u_stormcrow also said All Flock. I will visit my local feed store and do some label reading. I like the 20% protein, better during the winter.

I appreciate the heads up!

 

[NatJ]

The label for the Purina Gold'n feed says 1% calcium. It is manufactured in Canada, perhaps a different mix?

I wonder if "Gold'n" might be a name for a whole line of foods, instead of just one specific product. Does the label also say something about starter, or grower, or all-purpose, or something of the sort?

1% calcium is a good amount for a mixed flock.

Natj and u_stormcrow also said All Flock. I will visit my local feed store and do some label reading. I like the 20% protein, better during the winter.

All Flock is nutritionally about the same as chick starter, just another label for almost the same product.

There seem to be more and more "different" kinds of chicken food recently, but most of them can still be sorted into two basic groups: layer feed (high calcium) and everything else (low calcium, and usually with more protein than the layer feeds have.)

Reading the protein & calcium percentages can be more informative than reading the big letters on the front of the bag

 

[U_Stormcrow]

^ I'm with @NatJ on that. "Branding" far less important than the guaranteed nutritional label.

During the Pandemic, many of us used things labeld "Grower" or "Starter" when we couldn't get All Flock / Flock Raiser, and plenty of others used Flock Raiser / All Flock when they couldn't find Starter. How its marketed is merely suggestive. Like Quiche - can be served for breakfast, lunch or dinner - the underpinnings are essentially identical regardless.