Amprolium Questions

[HollyWoozle]

Our local vets aren't great with poultry but I have just discovered and registered on a website over here which links you to the nearest vets with a specific interest in chickens. They also sell kits you can send off with faecal samples and I believe also provide other services, including a post mortem.

It will be too late for Runa sadly, which I am sure I will live to regret for a long time, but hopefully can help me with the others. They aren't looking too bad right now as far as things go so hopefully I can get to the bottom of it and see if there is any link.

 

[sandesnow]

How warm is it where you are? In warm weather, watery droppings can be caused by increased intake of water as well. Is heat stress a possibility?

 

[Shadrach]

Our local vets aren't great with poultry but I have just discovered and registered on a website over here which links you to the nearest vets with a specific interest in chickens. They also sell kits you can send off with faecal samples and I believe also provide other services, including a post mortem.

It will be too late for Runa sadly, which I am sure I will live to regret for a long time, but hopefully can help me with the others. They aren't looking too bad right now as far as things go so hopefully I can get to the bottom of it and see if there is any link.

Getting a fecal float done by a lab or a competent vet would be your best way forward.
Coccidia is relatively easy for a vet ot lab to diagnose.
Ivermectin is reported to have lost it's efficacy for treatment of worms so I wouldn't bother with it.
Part of the challenge with any medication is ensuring that the right fowl gets the right dose. I dose each case individually, even with wormers and that way I know the correct dose has been received. Here's a good article on how to do this.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...dications-to-all-poultry-and-waterfowl.73335/
Poop examination by eye is fraught with difficulties. As mentioned above a bit of heat stress and the poop may go very runny, especially if the fowl has been drinking more.
As a very rough guide bright yellow, or bright green have indicated health problem here. Just about every other colour and consistency has fallen into the normal bracket proven by time.
This post while technically correct is misleading.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/amprolium-questions.1319832/#post-21515505
The correct dose (dose per fowl bodyweight) will deny the protozoa the ability to thrive by cutting off its nutrient supply, in effect starving it to death. It still dies.

 

[Mosey2003]

I would only use Ivermectin topically, for mites/lice. I don't trust it for internal parasites in the slightest.

My choice is Valbazen, or Safe Guard goat liquid if Valbazen isn't available.

 

[HollyWoozle]

By our standards it was very hot on Saturday, around 33C (91F or thereabouts), but it cooled down again Sunday to around 24C (75F). They have a lot of shade and I watered the ground. I sort of discounted what I saw from them on the super hot day but the watery droppings were evident before the heatwave arrived.

Both Frida (who was culled) and Runa show the same symptoms:

- hunched up with a wide-legged stance
- look sort of puffed up, ruffled feathers
- tail down
- eyes closed a lot like as if sleeping
- diarrhoea
- very thin
- progressively becoming more pale in the face/comb/wattles
- head-shaking
- no crop issues as far as I can tell, continuing to eat and drink until they are too weak essentially
- don't think any stuck egg

Frida's droppings were brown and runny and did not seem that healthy, but Runa's have remained a normal colour with clear white in them, but they are just sparse and watery. She was drinking very well yesterday and eating quite voraciously in between bouts of standing around with her eyes shut. She was moving around and scratching the ground sometimes. She has always looked worse in the mornings and then perked up throughout the day, going in to roost with her 'sisters' as normal.

Today she just seems too weary to do much - she will swallow water (the medicated water!) if I syringe it to her mouth and she will try to eat something really tempting (like melon or a berry) but after a few pecks just closes her eyes again. She has stood still almost the entire day.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Getting a fecal float done by a lab or a competent vet would be your best way forward.
Coccidia is relatively easy for a vet ot lab to diagnose.
Ivermectin is reported to have lost it's efficacy for treatment of worms so I wouldn't bother with it.
Part of the challenge with any medication is ensuring that the right fowl gets the right dose. I dose each case individually, even with wormers and that way I know the correct dose has been received. Here's a good article on how to do this.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...dications-to-all-poultry-and-waterfowl.73335/
Poop examination by eye is fraught with difficulties. As mentioned above a bit of heat stress and the poop may go very runny, especially if the fowl has been drinking more.
As a very rough guide bright yellow, or bright green have indicated health problem here. Just about every other colour and consistency has fallen into the normal bracket proven by time.
This post while technically correct is misleading.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/amprolium-questions.1319832/#post-21515505
The correct dose (dose per fowl bodyweight) will deny the protozoa the ability to thrive by cutting off its nutrient supply, in effect starving it to death. It still dies.

Thank you for this, that article about dosing them orally is really helpful for the future. I guess it's probably too late for Runa and perhaps not worth stressing her with it? She has had quite a lot to drink from a syringe anyway but I haven't kept track of how much she's had. I've given her a drink four times today.

 

[ronott1]

By our standards it was very hot on Saturday, around 33C (91F or thereabouts), but it cooled down again Sunday to around 24C (75F). They have a lot of shade and I watered the ground. I sort of discounted what I saw from them on the super hot day but the watery droppings were evident before the heatwave arrived.

Both Frida (who was culled) and Runa show the same symptoms:

- hunched up with a wide-legged stance
- look sort of puffed up, ruffled feathers
- tail down
- eyes closed a lot like as if sleeping
- diarrhoea
- very thin
- progressively becoming more pale in the face/comb/wattles
- head-shaking
- no crop issues as far as I can tell, continuing to eat and drink until they are too weak essentially
- don't think any stuck egg

Frida's droppings were brown and runny and did not seem that healthy, but Runa's have remained a normal colour with clear white in them, but they are just sparse and watery. She was drinking very well yesterday and eating quite voraciously in between bouts of standing around with her eyes shut. She was moving around and scratching the ground sometimes. She has always looked worse in the mornings and then perked up throughout the day, going in to roost with her 'sisters' as normal.

Today she just seems too weary to do much - she will swallow water (the medicated water!) if I syringe it to her mouth and she will try to eat something really tempting (like melon or a berry) but after a few pecks just closes her eyes again. She has stood still almost the entire day.

The symptoms you are seeing cover a lot of illnesses. A Necropsy on the one that passed would be very helpful in treating the surviving hen

 

[Shadrach]

Thank you for this, that article about dosing them orally is really helpful for the future. I guess it's probably too late for Runa and perhaps not worth stressing her with it? She has had quite a lot to drink from a syringe anyway but I haven't kept track of how much she's had. I've given her a drink four times today.

I would still dose each case individually and keep track of how much and when.

 

[HollyWoozle]

The symptoms you are seeing cover a lot of illnesses. A Necropsy on the one that passed would be very helpful in treating the surviving hen

Unfortunately I don't have the body anymore - lesson learned! My uncle, who lives next door, kindly took care of things for me when I realised she was too sick to be saved. I walked into his kitchen and asked him for help and he told me her would cull her humanely and take care of the body for me (he knows what he's doing when it comes to that).

This has been a real learning curve for me and I am regretting a lot of mistakes I've made. I am doing my best to learn from it and this forum is a continued source of education and motivation to be a better chicken-keeper.

 

[casportpony]

I am now treating the entire flock with Amprolium (via Harker's Coxoid) in the water and whilst I doubt the other very sick hen will pull through, she will still drink so I am giving her a chance.

Thanks @sandesnow, that's really helpful. The amprolium is 3.84%.

So sorry your hen is sick. You can give her the Harker's undiluted if she is not drinking enough medicated water. The dose I would use is 20 mg/kg once or twice a day. With the Harkers, here is the math:
1 / 2.2 x 20 / 38.4 = ~0.25 ml (1/4 cc) per pound of body weight

Can you treat with amprolium and ivermectin at the same time?

As everyone else already said, yes, you can use the two at the same time.