Anybody worried about the Situation with North Korea?

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Great idea but most hungry North Koreans would probably prefer to go south where they have family they've not seen for decades.

Still, it's worth a try. Here's your message in Korean - just copy and paste it onto advertising boards in large font size.



음식을 무료로는 국경 바로 중국!! 모든 먹을 수 있습니다. 가족 전체를 가져올 것입니다.

 

[Sir Birdaholic]

I hope this doesn't turn into another Vietnam uh..... conflict where it's just another bloody standoff. Hopefully our leaders have learned that if we're in a war, don't drag their feet. Get the job done fast & as safe as possible. I salute the men of the Vietnam war, & our country should have done the same!

 

[Dunkopf]

I don't think Obama will do anything unless our troops are attacked. The only reason he is in Afghanistan is because he feels it is the source of the actual threat against us. Why we ever went to Iraq will always be a mystery. The lies that were told don't explain it.

I would like to know the real reason we are in Afghanistan though. We sure can't afford to fight a war with North Korea. Like Thai said, we should let them figure it out themselves. The USA is not the worlds Mom and Dad.

As for the original survey question. I'm not worried right now. I might be in 2 years though.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
The oil industry wanted to build a pipeline through Afghanistan. The contractors took one look at the activities of the Taliban and went home. Remember that the Taliban were previously seen as good guys and funded, armed and trained by the US and Britain. Their leaders were once guests at the home of a certain nation's leader. After the Russians gave up and went home, the Taliban were left to get on with terrorising the other inhabitants of Afghanistan. It was too much for Western contracting civil engineers so there would be no pipeline. Bin Laden's links with the Taliban (they are said to have given him refuge) was an excuse for invading Afghanistan that the public would accept at the time. To date, bin Laden is still free, the Taliban are undefeated and there's no pipeline. Another fine mess you've got me into, Stanley!

Iraq? Oil! A British intelligence officer who exposed the WMD lie was hounded by the Prime Minister (Tony Bliar) and mysteriously committed suicide while taking his dog for its morning walk in the nearby woods. The BBC was pilloried for supporting the officer and the Director General was forced to resign. Oil, not WMD.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

This is nothing new. The same things happen every couple of years. NK has a show of force and starts talking smack, SK and US gear up and do the same, the media talk about "the tension"...

Business as usual... nothing to see here folks... move on...

 

[welsummerchicks]

I'm not quaking in my boots as I was during the six day war, but I am not making any assumptions either. 'America will never be attacked' - America already has been attacked.

'No country would attack us with nuclear weapons due to fear of massive reprisal' - I'm not sure history always turns on such cool, rational theorems.

For a rich loonie, Bin Laden seems to have a lot of pull, and causes a lot of people to get killed. If he died, though, I believe someone else would take his place, I think there are others like him. I think our 'Kill Bin Laden' gang is wasting money on a ridiculous purpose. The problem is indeed, bigger than one person. I think rather than calling him names or rattling our shields, it's more important to try and understand why a person like him became a figure for the Taliban, and how the 'organization' functions. That's how you strip it of power - if that's possible.

Because this is a basic sort of human nature that such groups rely for power on; specifically, cult psychology. So very basic and simple, and so very robust through time.

I think the term 'rich loonie' tends to ignore how he is viewed in the countries where he operates, where not all think of him as a 'rich loonie'. And as they say, 'nothing is but thinking makes it so'.

As history proves, people believe fanatics when they are hungry, lost, hopeless and angry. When they feel powerless, when they feel forgotten. When they feel they are being shamed. Hitler didn't preach one message, he preached whatever people wanted to hear when he went to that region. The very simple and standard psychology of the cult took it from there. He adjusted his shpiel to sell himself to diverse groups. He capitalized on the weaknesses in people's thinking. He was what they call 'charismatic'. Even people who assured their friends they would not be drawn in, felt themselves falling into it after one of his rallies. Why? He knew people's weaknesses, which is, what they were afraid of, angry about, unhappy about. That is the chink in the armor all people have against doing immoral things. And he seized upon that and broke it.

So, just as Hitler used hatred and redressing shame as his tools, people like Bin Laden turn people to fanaticism. Every religion has a fanatical wing, and every religion also has a larger group that believes in making a living, worshipping peacefully, and leaving others alone. It is not necessary to turn all people into fanatics.

It is only necessary to turn ENOUGH people in to fanatics. When the group is powerful enough, brutish enough, those who are not fanatics will be unable to oppose them. There is a sort of mob mentality in all groups - witness how angry and emotional people get about issues here about issues, and how completely one sided. That is the start of fanaticism. Witness that, and you will believe how easily people can be swayed to fanaticism. It is all a part of a very simple and universal group/cult psychology.

Get people upset, get them to stop thinking and studying facts, get them to stop looking at the different sides of an issue; that is the first step in recruiting them to fanaticism.

The effectiveness of the Taliban is that it is so fluid, and so decentralized, yet has a charismatic figurehead who contributes money at some level, but inspires many more. I'm not sure there really is a complete solution, except for tapping a magic wand and educating people and making them less poor. There would be fewer recruits and less support if the poor were not quite so available. If an Afghan author I read is right, many Taliban members are recruited from a highly available and perpetual group of thugs and petty criminals that would not change, even were they richer or better educated. But without the poor, they would have less effect.

I neither minimize/ignore nor sit in terror of what will be. I figure I have little influence on the outcome of international events, which have a great deal of momentum and a great many people who do not, and never will, think like me. I inform myself as best I can, and try to learn the causes of such events from different pundits of different callings(rather than read one source of information or opiniion and start waving their banner, which might be a pretty one-sided look at things), but I don't believe we here can really explain in quick, simple terms, how people half a world away, think or how they will act. And unless I missed that class at Hogwarts, no one has a chrystal ball and can say for sure what will be.

 

[thaiturkey]

Welsummerchickens, your definitions of 'fanatic' could be used by any side to describe leaders on the other side. It's merely a matter of perception. Middle Eastern 'fanatics' and those in North Korea probably feel that they are threatened by some Western leaders. Look at the rhetoric used by the West. If a few Middle Eastern nations had the fighting power that the West has and described us all as 'the axis of evil', would we not feel intimidated by that?

I agree that leaders trade on the fears and weaknesses of their followers. It has always been thus and Western governments are not innocent either. But those fears have their roots, in the case of Islam, centuries ago. I have no idea what can be done about that but making poor Muslims materially comfortable is not a solution. Saudi Arabia's ruling elite, bin Laden's real target, has the means to take better care of its own and treat them more humanely. In that sense, he has a just cause but he knows full well that Saudi will not fall while it has allies in the West. Similarly, most Muslim countries see Israel as a thorn in their side and a threat and that state is also supported by the West.

My own thinking around all of these problems leads me always to the same conclusion. The best we can do is get out and leave them to sort out their own issues, including Israel. But then, of course, there is the question of oil. We need oil and the oil companies need influence over the owners of Middle Eastern oil in order to make their profits.

No single power is innocent. They all exploit the fears of their own people in order to use them and control them.

 

[jafo]

N. Korea is no joke. The CFR and the Trilateral Commission BOTH wanted "us" to start another conflict with them, in order to provoke the real target, China, and further plunge America into financial oblivion. The only ones to gain any sort of "economic stimulus" are the corrupt bankers who finance BOTH sides. It's always been that way, and always will be. Those of you who like "movies" should get (from Amazon) "MISSING; PRESUMED DEAD" with Ed Asner, and Bill Dumas, who has been searching for his brother since, in N. Korea.

 

[bargain]

War may be an "apparent" economic status, but when we calculate the loss of lives of those who should be working in US for the future generations..Our brightest and best hurt, or dead, It's not a stimulus in the full impact of the word. Not trying to fight here Boyd, just my humble opinion. I'm proud of my sainted Dad he was in the WWII and quite a trouper!

I try not to worry because the Bible says there will always be war and rumors of war, guess we lost all hope of full piece when those 2 got kicked out of the G. of Eden...Really....

Interesting topic. I still pray for peace everywhere...all the time...Love, hugs and prayers to all. Nancy

 

[Organics North]

TT,
I enjoy your outside of the USA perspective... I am aware my viewpoint is colored by the lenses of American propaganda, but sometimes I am not aware of the degree of the tainting...um Tinting...

'No country would attack us with nuclear weapons due to fear of massive reprisal' - I'm not sure history always turns on such cool, rational theorems.

welsummerchicks, You are correct I can not disagree! We do not live in a rational world..

Business as usual... nothing to see here folks... move on...

mac in abilene....

Oh so true..

ON​