Anyone have fish?

[ShrekDawg]

The filters usually aren't powerful enough, and you want a bottom drain. Those ones that come with submersible pumps are no good. Get a good pump, but make sure you have a priming pot on it so debris doesn't get caught in the pump. This is the pump that I have: https://www.advantageman.com/product_p/es3500.htm

You want to lower your bioload so as large a pond as possible with as small a fish load as you can limit yourself to to best reduce pump/filtration costs. Think about what you will do when the goldfish reproduce or get too big for your setup. It's much like figuring out what you are going to do with unwanted cockerels/roosters.

Remember that is just the filter. You still need to factor in pump costs to drive that filter (typically $250+)

Thanks for all the help! That seems like a really big pump but maybe necessary for waterfalls?

I was considering these two kits and it seems like it has a pretty powerful filter and pump for the size of the pond? Especially the first one which it says is for heavier flow and waterfalls and stuff. Under "tech specs" it lists exactly what is included and all of the pump and filter sizes, gallons of the pond, etc.

https://www.thepondguy.com/product/the-pond-guy-rapidflo-ecosystem-pond-kits/pond-kits

https://www.thepondguy.com/product/the-pond-guy-allclear-ecosystem-pond-kits/pond-kits

 

[CarpCharacin]

An external pump with a priming pot and a bottom drain would be the best IMO. The ES3500 is the pump that I have, it's around $300 and it pumps 3500 GPH.

 

[X_and_Z]

OK - a bit about pump specs. Pumps GPH flow rate is usually provided at 0' of head unless specified otherwise. Long stretches of pipe, smaller pipe, pipe fittings, rise above the water surface all reduce the GPH a lot - look at the tech specs for the pump and you will see a graph with the GPH per feet of head and how quickly it drops off.

Even for medium stocked fish ponds you want 1.5 to 2x the volume of the pond turnover per hour - i.e. if you have a 1000 gallon pond you want 1500 to 2000 GPH through your filter. These kits are great if you have a handful of goldfish in a 1000 gallon pond but they don't have a large enough pump or enough filtration for a typical koi pond (or highly stocked goldfish pond) stocking level.

My pond is somewhere on the order of 4000 gallons with 40 or so goldfish ranging from 9-10" to the majority at 3-4". That is really, really lightly stocked by koi pond standards. I am getting away with filtration similar to what is available in these kits - more because I have extra matala matting in the skimmer and bio-balls/matting in the waterfall but not a tone more. My water has good parameters for a goldfish pond, but the water is green when it is hot (i.e. most of the summer - it is in full sun though and would do better if covered with shade cloth, not tree cover since leaves/needles in your pond is not a good thing) and won't support even small koi that are more sensitive to poor water quality.

Here are a couple of links to how to calculate head:
https://pentairaes.com/pump-calculator
https://www.bayt.com/en/specialties...mbing-design-for-potable-water-supply-system/

 

[ShrekDawg]

An external pump with a priming pot and a bottom drain would be the best IMO. The ES3500 is the pump that I have, it's around $300 and it pumps 3500 GPH.

What is a priming pot?

OK - a bit about pump specs. Pumps GPH flow rate is usually provided at 0' of head unless specified otherwise. Long stretches of pipe, smaller pipe, pipe fittings, rise above the water surface all reduce the GPH a lot - look at the tech specs for the pump and you will see a graph with the GPH per feet of head and how quickly it drops off.

Even for medium stocked fish ponds you want 1.5 to 2x the volume of the pond turnover per hour - i.e. if you have a 1000 gallon pond you want 1500 to 2000 GPH through your filter. These kits are great if you have a handful of goldfish in a 1000 gallon pond but they don't have a large enough pump or enough filtration for a typical koi pond (or highly stocked goldfish pond) stocking level.

My pond is somewhere on the order of 4000 gallons with 40 or so goldfish ranging from 9-10" to the majority at 3-4". That is really, really lightly stocked by koi pond standards. I am getting away with filtration similar to what is available in these kits - more because I have extra matala matting in the skimmer and bio-balls/matting in the waterfall but not a tone more. My water has good parameters for a goldfish pond, but the water is green when it is hot (i.e. most of the summer - it is in full sun though and would do better if covered with shade cloth, not tree cover since leaves/needles in your pond is not a good thing) and won't support even small koi that are more sensitive to poor water quality.

Here are a couple of links to how to calculate head:
https://pentairaes.com/pump-calculator
https://www.bayt.com/en/specialties...mbing-design-for-potable-water-supply-system/

Thanks again, you've been very helpful.

So would I need a stronger pump for a waterfall then?

And I don't think I want a huge 4000 gallon pond, I don't think our yard is even big enough for one if I did. And I think I'd only want like 10 or 12 fish and even that's pushing it. I like my 4 that I have so I'm not even sure I'd want many more than that. Mainly just want a place for them to grow out with maybe a few more or keeping a few babies. But maybe once I have it set up I might want more but idk. I definitely don't want some huge operation. I mean, eventually I might on another property but idk

 

[CarpCharacin]

What is a priming pot?

It's something that goes right before the intake on the pump that allows you to pour water in to prime it, and it also has a strainer to keep debris from getting caught in the pump. https://www.pondgardener.com/produc...pkCIX0KNoa3TBRHgPUFC4IYSP_TmkqLRoCBAAQAvD_BwE

 

[ShrekDawg]

It's something that goes right before the intake on the pump that allows you to pour water in to prime it, and it also has a strainer to keep debris from getting caught in the pump. https://www.pondgardener.com/produc...pkCIX0KNoa3TBRHgPUFC4IYSP_TmkqLRoCBAAQAvD_BwE

Thanks, I'd never heard of one but it seems like a good idea and pretty cheap.

So water flows through that first, it catches the debris, and then onto the pump? So that debris doesn't go into the pump? What's the difference between that and a regular filter or a skimmer? Just that it's directly connected to the pump? But if you have a lot of other filters wouldn't it catch most of the debris?

 

[CarpCharacin]

Thanks, I'd never heard of one but it seems like a good idea and pretty cheap.

So water flows through that first, it catches the debris, and then onto the pump? So that debris doesn't go into the pump? What's the difference between that and a regular filter or a skimmer? Just that it's directly connected to the pump? But if you have a lot of other filters wouldn't it catch most of the debris?

The priming pot is no substitute for a filter, but it helps catch debris before the filter so it doesn't get caught in the pump. The water comes from the bottom drain and or skimmer and goes to the pump, and then the pump pumps it to the filter. Larger debris that gets sucked in through the bottom drain would go straight into the pump without the priming pot, and then it would get stuck, and it's hard to clean out.

 

[CarpCharacin]

It's also so you can prime the pump with water, hence the name.

 

[ShrekDawg]

The priming pot is no substitute for a filter, but it helps catch debris before the filter so it doesn't get caught in the pump. The water comes from the bottom drain and or skimmer and goes to the pump, and then the pump pumps it to the filter. Larger debris that gets sucked in through the bottom drain would go straight into the pump without the priming pot, and then it would get stuck, and it's hard to clean out.

Ohhh that makes sense, thanks.

 

[X_and_Z]

What is a priming pot?



Thanks again, you've been very helpful.

So would I need a stronger pump for a waterfall then?

And I don't think I want a huge 4000 gallon pond, I don't think our yard is even big enough for one if I did. And I think I'd only want like 10 or 12 fish and even that's pushing it. I like my 4 that I have so I'm not even sure I'd want many more than that. Mainly just want a place for them to grow out with maybe a few more or keeping a few babies. But maybe once I have it set up I might want more but idk. I definitely don't want some huge operation. I mean, eventually I might on another property but idk

I only added 6 goldfish to my pond - they breed like crazy. I even had a huge die off 2 years ago and lost almost all my fish and still have a ton. My pond is only ~14' long x ~4-9' wide and ~4-5' deep with a 6000GPH pump + a secondary 1200GPH pump. The gallons go up pretty fast if you make your pond appropriately deep.

Perhaps you should look into fancy goldfish (orandas, ranchus, etc) which don't breed as much, stay smaller and prefer calmer water. They are still relaxing, but you can be fairly sure that the number you buy will be close to the number that are actually in your pond.