Anyone watch Whale Wars??

[schellie69]

Where the Whaler's are hunting is a gray area, the whale war guys think there is not supposed to be whale hunters in this area but there is no law outlawing whaling in the waters that they are working in I think it shows it in the first show something about the way things are worded that both are right and both are wrong. I think that they have good idea to stop whaling no real reason for it now but their tactics are not the best. since I don't have cable/or dish anymore I don't watch any tv it seems better that way lol.

 

[redhen]

Honestly, i'm very surprised that the cost guard dosent step in and stop it...
i mean ramming other boats and stuff... come on....
Theyre going to kill someone someday and that will be the end of that...
They need to find another way...

 

[gritsar]

From a neutral source (Wikipedia):

Whaling is the hunting of whales mainly for meat and oil. Its earliest forms dates to at least 3,000 BC.[1] Various coastal communities have long histories of sustenance whaling and harvesting beached whales. Industrial whaling emerged with organized fleets in the 17th century; competitive national whaling industries in the 18th and 19th centuries; and the introduction of factory ships along with the concept of whale harvesting in the first half of the 20th century.

As technology increased and demand for the seemingly vast resources remained high, catches far exceeded the carrying capacity of whale stocks. In the late 1930s more than 50,000 whales were killed annually [2] and by the middle of the century whale stocks were not being replenished. In 1986 the International Whaling Commission (IWC) banned commercial whaling so that stocks might recover.

While the moratorium has been successful in averting the extinction of whale species due to overhunting, contemporary whaling is subject to intense debate. Pro-whaling countries wish to lift the ban on stocks that they believe have recovered sufficiently to sustain limited hunting[citation needed]. Anti-whaling countries and environmental groups contend that those stocks remain vulnerable and that whaling is immoral and should remain banned[citation needed].


Japan
Main article: Whaling in Japan

Japanese narrative screen showing a whale hunt off Wakayama.When the commercial whaling moratorium was introduced by the IWC in 1982, Japan lodged an official objection. However, in response to US threats to cut Japan's fishing quota in US territorial waters under the terms of the Packwood-Magnuson Amendment, Japan withdrew its objection in 1987. However, according to the BBC, America went back on this promise, effectively destroying the deal.[15] Since Japan could not resume commercial whaling, it began whaling on a scientific-research basis. Australia, Greenpeace, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and other groups dispute the Japanese claim of research "as a disguise for commercial whaling, which is banned."[16][17]

The stated purpose of the research program is to establish the size and dynamics of whale populations. The Japanese government wishes to resume whaling in a sustainable manner under the oversight of the IWC, both for whale products (meat etc.) and to help preserve fishing resources by culling whales. Anti-whaling organizations claim that the research program is a front for commercial whaling, that the sample size is needlessly large and that equivalent information can be obtained by non-lethal means, for example by studying samples of whale tissue (such as skin) or faeces.[citation needed] The Japanese government sponsored Institute of Cetacean Research (ICR), which conducts the research, disagrees, stating that the information obtainable from tissue and/or feces samples is insufficient and that the sample size is necessary in order to be representative.[citation needed]

Japan's scientific whaling program is controversial in anti-whaling countries. Countries opposed to whaling have passed non-binding resolutions in the IWC urging Japan to stop the program. Japan claims that whale stocks for some species are sufficiently large to sustain commercial hunting and blame filibustering by the anti-whaling side for the continuation of scientific whaling. Deputy whaling commissioner, Joji nonsense, told BBC News:

"The reason for the moratorium [on commercial whaling] was scientific uncertainty about the number of whales. ... It was a moratorium for the sake of collecting data and that is why we started scientific whaling. We were asked to collect more data."[18]

 

[SaltLakeSpice]

Quote:
There is an international governing body that monitors and manages whaling but membership is voluntary for interested countries (right now only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the world's countries are members) . The restrictions set by the governing body only apply the coastal waters "owned" by member states so outside of those areas they have no jurisdiction. Also, the restrictions apply mostly to commercial whaling so even some member nations get around restrictions by claiming that it is for research purposes or that they are allowing native groups to harvest whales for their subsistence needs.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
At what point does communication become a language?

Whales, and for that matter, octopus and squid, have demonstrated incredible levels of intelligence.

So, they can communicate, demonstrate problem-solving intelligence beyond instinctive behaviors, and are possessed of emotion. Other than tool use, what standard for 'sentient/sapient' don't they meet?

Still, though, if there's a demand, I really can't blame the whalers. They probably make a nice mint off of it.

There is also a demand for illegal narcotics and the people selling those make a nice mint as well.​

First of all, emotion my foot. I've never seen or heard of any instance of anything short of a chimpanzee displaying actual emotion, and those instances are questionable. Also, what really strikes me as the critical conditions for being sentient/sapient is rational thought and self-awareness. Neither of these has been demonstrated in whales or dolphins, or monkeys, or anything short of humans.

Do NOT get me started on the drug war. I could easily turn this thread into a vicious debate. I'll just leave it at this. As long as you aren't harming anyone else in any way, you have every right to be stupid and smoke pot. I don't care, nor does anyone else. The same applies to every other drug that some people are stupid/pathetic enought to use. It's your body, nobody gives a crap as long as you don't drive while you're high.

Another big difference. People aren't getting KILLED over illegal whaling, are they? Heck, the whaling isn't even illegal.

I still say, arrest the enviro-whackos and end the insanity. They meet, beyond any doubt, the qualifications for "criminal."

Random thought, I've never seen an octopus described as really smart. I know they're pretty clever, but then they have to be to get at their prey. Same as chimps with termites.

 

[fancbrd4me02]

Quote:
At what point does communication become a language?

Whales, and for that matter, octopus and squid, have demonstrated incredible levels of intelligence.

So, they can communicate, demonstrate problem-solving intelligence beyond instinctive behaviors, and are possessed of emotion. Other than tool use, what standard for 'sentient/sapient' don't they meet?

Still, though, if there's a demand, I really can't blame the whalers. They probably make a nice mint off of it.

There is also a demand for illegal narcotics and the people selling those make a nice mint as well.​

First of all, emotion my foot. I've never seen or heard of any instance of anything short of a chimpanzee displaying actual emotion, and those instances are questionable. Also, what really strikes me as the critical conditions for being sentient/sapient is rational thought and self-awareness. Neither of these has been demonstrated in whales or dolphins, or monkeys, or anything short of humans.

Do NOT get me started on the drug war. I could easily turn this thread into a vicious debate. I'll just leave it at this. As long as you aren't harming anyone else in any way, you have every right to be stupid and smoke pot. I don't care, nor does anyone else. The same applies to every other drug that some people are stupid/pathetic enought to use. It's your body, nobody gives a crap as long as you don't drive while you're high.

Another big difference. People aren't getting KILLED over illegal whaling, are they? Heck, the whaling isn't even illegal.

I still say, arrest the enviro-whackos and end the insanity. They meet, beyond any doubt, the qualifications for "criminal."

Random thought, I've never seen an octopus described as really smart. I know they're pretty clever, but then they have to be to get at their prey. Same as chimps with termites.

Actually, in regards to self awareness, you are mistaken. Chimpanzees and dolphins have been shown to recognize themselves. Apes can learn and communicate in sign language, and when they do so they often describe emotions and desires (fear, want,love),. Some apes have pets that they treat with affection, like you might a your own pet. Pigs have shown to recognize themselves in mirrors and are capable of solving cognitive tasks that 3 year old children cannot. Sentient thought or rational thought has been demonstrated in many species, pigs are only one of many animals who have shown the ability for complex reasoning and problem solving. Octopus are smart enough to be advanced problem solvers, as have squid. Some squid are capable of solving complex mazes. Many other species have been shown to play games and share culture, or traditional ways of doing things which are learned and not instinctive. Crows play games. It has also been demonstrated that animals have emotions, and that having emotions are adaptive to survival. In fact, an animal that lacked emotions would die. That is probably the root cause of the development of emotions in our ancient ancestors. Thier is some debate as to the complexity of animal emotions, but the basic emotions we have are found in most animals.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
At what point does communication become a language?

Whales, and for that matter, octopus and squid, have demonstrated incredible levels of intelligence.

So, they can communicate, demonstrate problem-solving intelligence beyond instinctive behaviors, and are possessed of emotion. Other than tool use, what standard for 'sentient/sapient' don't they meet?


There is also a demand for illegal narcotics and the people selling those make a nice mint as well.

First of all, emotion my foot. I've never seen or heard of any instance of anything short of a chimpanzee displaying actual emotion, and those instances are questionable. Also, what really strikes me as the critical conditions for being sentient/sapient is rational thought and self-awareness. Neither of these has been demonstrated in whales or dolphins, or monkeys, or anything short of humans.

Do NOT get me started on the drug war. I could easily turn this thread into a vicious debate. I'll just leave it at this. As long as you aren't harming anyone else in any way, you have every right to be stupid and smoke pot. I don't care, nor does anyone else. The same applies to every other drug that some people are stupid/pathetic enought to use. It's your body, nobody gives a crap as long as you don't drive while you're high.

Another big difference. People aren't getting KILLED over illegal whaling, are they? Heck, the whaling isn't even illegal.

I still say, arrest the enviro-whackos and end the insanity. They meet, beyond any doubt, the qualifications for "criminal."

Random thought, I've never seen an octopus described as really smart. I know they're pretty clever, but then they have to be to get at their prey. Same as chimps with termites.

Actually, in regards to self awareness, you are mistaken. Chimpanzees and dolphins have been shown to recognize themselves. Apes can learn and communicate in sign language, and when they do so they often describe emotions and desires (fear, want,love),. Some apes have pets that they treat with affection, like you might a your own pet. Pigs have shown to recognize themselves in mirrors and are capable of solving cognitive tasks that 3 year old children cannot. Sentient thought or rational thought has been demonstrated in many species, pigs are only one of many animals who have shown the ability for complex reasoning and problem solving. Octopus are smart enough to be advanced problem solvers, as have squid. Some squid are capable of solving complex mazes. Many other species have been shown to play games and share culture, or traditional ways of doing things which are learned and not instinctive. Crows play games. It has also been demonstrated that animals have emotions, and that having emotions are adaptive to survival. In fact, an animal that lacked emotions would die. That is probably the root cause of the development of emotions in our ancient ancestors. Thier is some debate as to the complexity of animal emotions, but the basic emotions we have are found in most animals.

What she said.... its all been proven.

 

[OccamsTazer]

x3!

 

[SeaHen]

I don't watch the show but am supportive of ending commercial whaling by any means necessary. Years ago the Green Peace vessel Rainbow Warrior was sunk and a crew member killed when it placed itself between a whaling ship and a pod of migrating whales. Back in those days the hope was that barbaric attitudes and practices could be changed peacefully, without violence. If you've ever watched baby seals being clubbed to death and/or skinned alive you begin to understand that the hunters have a unique mentality and can only be dealt with on their own terms.

The belief that animals have no self-awareness and are incapable of feeling and displaying emotion is actually quite antiquated and has been disproven through many scientific studies.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

Quote:
I take it you've never owned a dog then?

Random thought, I've never seen an octopus described as really smart. I know they're pretty clever, but then they have to be to get at their prey. Same as chimps with termites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus is a good place to start learning. Anyone who has actually studied these creatures will characterize them as 'really smart'.



It has been documented that a dolphin or porpoise will kill for the sheer pleasure of it. I suppose that alone proves they are equal to humans.​