Are we becoming a police state?

[KristyHall]

Quote:
But don't you think the officer over reacted? What happened to restraining the lady like cops use to do before tasers? A taser is extremely dangerous.

He might as well have punched her in the face or shot her in the foot. At least he would have had less of a risk of killing her. The problem I have with tasering people who are non violent , even if they are belligerent, is that it is an over reaction. It is violence. A person does not have a right to be violent to someone just because they are yelling. What worries me is that some officers are using it as a way to solve all problems instead of talking or restraining. Laws need to see a taser as a weapon that is unacceptable to use unless life threatening situations just like a billy club and a gun.

It can kill people. It is being over used.

I suggest you be very careful in your accusations. Unless you have ever been a police officer, you have zero ground to stand on. Buck up, go through what it takes to become a police officer and only then, in the face of you being in this exact situation can you make a judgement. In case it had never occured to you, often times the "police report" that you have read or the information relayed to you by your (I'm sure) very credible news source is not a complete account of what occured.

I stand by my statement. Dismiss my opinions all you like but there are good officers out there and bad ones, and I will not pretend otherwise.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Quote:
But don't you think the officer over reacted? What happened to restraining the lady like cops use to do before tasers? A taser is extremely dangerous.

He might as well have punched her in the face or shot her in the foot. At least he would have had less of a risk of killing her. The problem I have with tasering people who are non violent , even if they are belligerent, is that it is an over reaction. It is violence. A person does not have a right to be violent to someone just because they are yelling. What worries me is that some officers are using it as a way to solve all problems instead of talking or restraining. Laws need to see a taser as a weapon that is unacceptable to use unless life threatening situations just like a billy club and a gun.

It can kill people. It is being over used.

No, I dont think the officer over reacted. I have seen the video, the officer had spent 10-15 minutes trying to calm this woman down and explain to her why she was being stopped and her offense. The woman was continually cursing at the officer and basically looking like a crazy person. When he asked her to sign her ticket that is when she just lost it and started becoming physical with the officer, he kept a very calm cool head all through the event until this lady just went too far. I will still stand by my initial response in that she deserved it. She was being violent with the officer and a danger to herself. They tried to restrain the lady but she was fighting the officer. So bam, tasered.
Police officers have a thankless job and are villified by so many in our respectless society. Every single call or traffic stop could be their last, they dont know. How would you deal with the pressure of going into work every day knowing there is a possibility you might be put into a life or death situation?

 

[bakerjw]

Where law enforcement takes the hit is when the good ones cover for or refuse to acknowledge the actions of the bad ones. If "Officer A" witnesses "Officer B" abusing his authority and turns him in, then "Officer A" will be castigated by their peers. It is only after LEOs take the attitude that one bad one makes them all look bad and will not be tolerated will things begin to improve.

Any knee jerk reaction will cause a pendulum effect. Our security was weak prior to 9/11 and the knee jerk reaction caused the passage of the patriot act. That started the pendulum swinging. Whether it is still swinging to the bottom, at the bottom, or at the far extreme is too hard to tell. It isn't really a party related thing any longer, IMHO it is now a product of itself. Government agencies that gain power and authority do not give it up easily. To do so would be to lose the status and budget that the department has obtained. Does anyone believe that the DHS would be folded if all Al Qaeda were wiped from the face of the Earth? DHS would just have to scrounge up a new bad guy for us to worry about.

There have been government generated pamphlets detailing home grown terrorists. People who quote the constitution, 2nd amendment, states rights, and other beliefs were listed as indicators of possible signs of a home grown terrorist.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
But don't you think the officer over reacted? What happened to restraining the lady like cops use to do before tasers? A taser is extremely dangerous.

He might as well have punched her in the face or shot her in the foot. At least he would have had less of a risk of killing her. The problem I have with tasering people who are non violent , even if they are belligerent, is that it is an over reaction. It is violence. A person does not have a right to be violent to someone just because they are yelling. What worries me is that some officers are using it as a way to solve all problems instead of talking or restraining. Laws need to see a taser as a weapon that is unacceptable to use unless life threatening situations just like a billy club and a gun.

It can kill people. It is being over used.

No, I dont think the officer over reacted. I have seen the video, the officer had spent 10-15 minutes trying to calm this woman down and explain to her why she was being stopped and her offense. The woman was continually cursing at the officer and basically looking like a crazy person. When he asked her to sign her ticket that is when she just lost it and started becoming physical with the officer, he kept a very calm cool head all through the event until this lady just went too far. I will still stand by my initial response in that she deserved it. She was being violent with the officer and a danger to herself. They tried to restrain the lady but she was fighting the officer. So bam, tasered.
Police officers have a thankless job and are villified by so many in our respectless society. Every single call or traffic stop could be their last, they dont know. How would you deal with the pressure of going into work every day knowing there is a possibility you might be put into a life or death situation?

and I stand by my statement. in the earlier post nothing was said about her being violent and attempts at restraining her failed. Tasering is acceptable only in situations where it is dangerous and the suspect can not be restrained. If what you say is true (Though you clarified after my post, and the clarification still falls in line with what my earlier point was) then it was acceptable. But only if they exhausted their other less dangerous options.

Many jobs are thankless and dangerous but it does not give the people an excuse to abuse power. Pointing out flaws in some officers, and I stress some, as I stressed earlier, is not demonizing the whole profession. I know many good officers and have worked with them on some subjects. But I have also seen abusive officers get away with a lot as well.

Pointing out the dangers s not disrespectful, it is bringing to light the abuse, and working to stop it, so that the good officers do not have to worry about tarnish on their good names.

Just as one criticizes the abuse in the senate, or in the FBI, or any other organization that has power over the average person. A knee jerk defending of all people in these professions because they are in position of power, are friends, of a similar position, or do dangerous jobs, is dangerous in itself.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
well said and quite true. Some supporters of these over zealous laws seem to have the attitude of " It is better to kill an innocent person than let a witch go free"

 

[Q9]

You guys just now figuring this out? SWAT teams have been increasingly overused, as has the taser. Need I mention the "PATRIOT" Act, suspensions of habeas corpus, violations of free speech, and the use of paramilitary units (SWAT, etc.) to serve regular search warrants?

Here's a humorous video to make everyone feel somewhat better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skV96Ga9VO4

Now, for certain people, I have this to say. The average citizen is just as capable as a police officer or a soldier of making moral judgments. Wearing a government uniform does NOT make you a superior human being, however, I have encountered quite a few people who seem to think this way.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
for the most part, Q9 I agree. I didn't watch the video though. I have limited bandwith

 

[Q9]

Quote:
for the most part, Q9 I agree. I didn't watch the video though. I have limited bandwith

It's a hysterical skit about things it's illegal to say.

 

[SourRoses]

As horrible as that is, the elderly lady and TSA.... There was yet another aspect to it.... The diaper was a bio-hazard. By very longstanding rules, the TSA personel wouldn't be able to pat her anywhere near the depends. Flight attendants on a flight are not allowed to clean up any kind of biological mess, even if someone threw up into the aisle, because of those same longstanding rules. It's not just about the person first coming into contact with it, its about the million other people who will come into contact with that first person and all the surfaces touched in that setting. It could lead to major outbreaks of deadly illnesses.


As far as police... they are people too, not machines. An officers actions, just like those of military, doctors, pilots, ect ect, are a matter of personal judgement in the end... and NO ones judgement is perfect all of the time. Things should be taken on a case to case basis.


Now if you want to complain about upper management, I'm right there with you. Reminds me of 'The thought police'.

 

[WickedNerd]

Thankfully, in the field I work in, I have had the great fortune to know several good police officers. They do what they can to make my clients feel safe and secure in a time that's the most dangerous for them. They will do a sweep of the area if I call and ask. They'll escort a client in at 4 in the morning to make sure their abuser isn't following them. They do what's best for the people, not just my clients or myself. They're good cops.

Unfortunately, I've also had the displeasure and frustration of dealing with some cops that really shouldn't be cops. They're quick to judge and once they're convinced that you're no good, they aren't going to help you. They blame the victims of the incidents and don't enforce what needs to be enforced.

I disapprove of tasering, especially an unarmed perpetrator. If someone is armed or is aggressively moving towards you with the intention to physically hurt you and look like they could do it, that's one thing. You do have to protect yourself in order to be of any use to the situation, and I get that it's a hard call to make sometimes. However, tasering someone because they're yelling at you because they're upset is uncalled for and if they're able to survive it only does one thing: it makes that person, and anyone involved, completely unwilling to trust the police again. Sometimes, that's the only way people can communicate their unhappiness. Yeah, it's obnoxious. Yeah, it gets your heart racing because that's our natural physical response to it. Firing 50,000 volts into a person is not the best action.

I worry that too many, especially people from my generation, are too quick to shoot. They resolve the conflict by disabling those involved and deal with the ramifications later. If the ramifications will be severe, they back pedal and cover up. I'm not saying that all cops do this, but there's been a major increase of it, it seems...or at least the media is reporting it more. I saw this sort of behavior when a kid would act out in my classroom...I sometimes worry that some of the people we trust our safety to haven't emotionally left the 6th grade.