Are we becoming a police state?

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Then life is happy, but if the last november elections were anything to take note of, the majority of Americans sat up and voted their feelings. 2012 is going to be a circus.. and there is always going to be those who are happy and those who aren't. In the cival war often times it was family vs. family, father and son, brother against brother.

What if the majority want change and the minority in power doesn't? Things happen, and the 2nd amendment was put in place so that when a democracy gets too bloated and top heavy, it can be toppled. Happened in democracies 'round the world time and time again. The life span of a democratic republics have been 250-400 years before major changes happen.. just sayin'

Rome lasted a while as a republic, but after some time it became the Roman Empire. We all know how that worked out.

To those who suggest "moving to someplace better," where?! Every piece of land that can possibly support human civilization has been claimed by some government or another, whether it's actually inhabited or not. There's NOWHERE LEFT. According to most people, secession and nullification are not options either, so basically what we're being told is that if we're in the minority with our beliefs, we have to just shut up and deal with it.

That's pretty much the truth. If you are in the minority, then get involved in politics. Only way to try to change it.

Either that are move to Haiti. No laws or regulations there. You can do what you want.

 

[Junkmanme]

Quote:
Guy must be a big businessman and doesn't want any competition. That's some pretty severe exaggeration of tax figures. If any of it was true why did most of the fortunre 500 companies get tax refunds last year. If he wants to criticize America he should learn how to spell it too. BTW, I thought we had plenty of jobs in America. It's just that everyone wants something for nothing and won't take all the jobs just laying around. The party out of power needs to get on the same sheet of music. It's confusing me.

Yes. The figures are "exaggerated" at this time. But they were essentially correct for the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
The OVERALL MESSAGE is accurate in MANY ways. And, it is NOT "Big Business" of Corporate America which provides the BULK of American Jobs. It is your neighbor who owns a "very small business" who provides MOST of the jobs.
BUT, the Government Regulations and increasing paperwork make his efforts more futile and less rewarding every day. Many of these people have just "given-up", retired, and have contented themselves with part-time jobs like being "greeters" at Wal-Mart.

That's no way to increase the number of Private-Sector jobs available.
Interestingly, jobs in the Government have "mushroomed" or "exploded" in number the past few years. These jobs are ultimately a DRAG on the Economy.

-Junkmanme-

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Yes, there are always options. And one option is holding discussions, figuring out what you can stand behind and what you can't, and then working to enact change within your own state and country. You don't even have to be personally unhappy to want changes to occur, just as I am sure many who commented here are living perfectly full and enriching lives, but, you may be unhappy about the way others are treated, and not be willing to allow perceived injustices to go on while one sits down quietly. There are many studies that show (as does simple life experience) that some people are more concerned about how people outside of themselves are treated than others, and I do meet people who honestly can not seem to understand how someone would be concerned about such things . One example would be claiming that anyone who supports same-sex rights must be homosexual themselves, because the idea of not having a personal stake in something is too foreign.
I also see, quite commonly, people who say "don't like it, move...I love America", but if you continue to listen to them talk, it not uncommonly becomes clear that while they love the idea of America, the seem to dislike most Americans and think any issues they have would be solved if only 'they' would move. The same goes with people who themselves are unhappy with something, I'll use Fred the mayor for an example, or at least, they have pegged all their complaints on a vessel regardless if facts support these sentiments, and then do things like say, "I love America so, but Fred is causing all these problems and ruining America, but that's not to say I am complaining about America, see, because he is turning it into something else and because he isn't a real American" or "public schools are government propaganda camps, but since the government doesn't stand for what I believe in, it's not really American...it's a socialist take over is what it is". Basically, people may have more in common than they lead themselves to believe. I feel the "don't like it, move" statements are themselves very fearful and threatened oftentimes, especially since I 'thought' (well, more like parroted in my case) the same thing back when I did not understand the scope of the black and white views and underlying fear I was raised around. Pigeon-holing people we disagree with, or simplifying complex subjects, leads to lessened understanding. Stating ultimatums such as "don't like it, move" are statements that do not welcome discussion. I think these things go against the spirit of free speech and of unity that we carry in our name.

 

[Junkmanme]

IF "Fred-the-Mayor" is over-stepping his authority and thereby diminishing the inherent rights of the Citizenry (whether well-intentioned or not), he SHOULD BE criticized and voted OUT.

Example: A City's use of "Eminent Domain" to obtain properties which they then sell to developers for "City Revitalization".
VERY "Borderline" in concept AND "illegal" in implementation.

-Junkmanme-

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Rome lasted a while as a republic, but after some time it became the Roman Empire. We all know how that worked out.

To those who suggest "moving to someplace better," where?! Every piece of land that can possibly support human civilization has been claimed by some government or another, whether it's actually inhabited or not. There's NOWHERE LEFT. According to most people, secession and nullification are not options either, so basically what we're being told is that if we're in the minority with our beliefs, we have to just shut up and deal with it.

as someone who has grown up with minorities, different races, LGBT's, Oppressed women, and religions other than Christianity, we're used to that attitude. We're use to being told to sit down and shut up. People claim we're being "too politically correct" when we demand to be treated with respect and not being labeled with stereotypes and offensive slang terms.

sucks when it happens doesn't it?

Hey, as long as nobody tries using legislation to get special privileges, I'm good. Unfortunately, the most vocal of those groups are demanding more than toleration - they are demanding endorsement.

 

[Junkmanme]

They demand not only "endorsement"...but oftentimes....also "Subsidy".

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Guy must be a big businessman and doesn't want any competition. That's some pretty severe exaggeration of tax figures. If any of it was true why did most of the fortunre 500 companies get tax refunds last year. If he wants to criticize America he should learn how to spell it too. BTW, I thought we had plenty of jobs in America. It's just that everyone wants something for nothing and won't take all the jobs just laying around. The party out of power needs to get on the same sheet of music. It's confusing me.

Yes. The figures are "exaggerated" at this time. But they were essentially correct for the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
The OVERALL MESSAGE is accurate in MANY ways. And, it is NOT "Big Business" of Corporate America which provides the BULK of American Jobs. It is your neighbor who owns a "very small business" who provides MOST of the jobs.
BUT, the Government Regulations and increasing paperwork make his efforts more futile and less rewarding every day. Many of these people have just "given-up", retired, and have contented themselves with part-time jobs like being "greeters" at Wal-Mart.

That's no way to increase the number of Private-Sector jobs available.
Interestingly, jobs in the Government have "mushroomed" or "exploded" in number the past few years. These jobs are ultimately a DRAG on the Economy.

-Junkmanme-

I agree with all that. Yea I know that around 90% of the jobs created in this country are in the small business sector and they do have a lot of unneeded regulations. Not all are unneeded though and yes I do believe that a lot of regulations are passed explicitly for the purpose of making it difficult for small business. The SBA is also highly influenced by large business and a lot of fortune 500 companies are getting government contract that should be going to small businesses by law. They are simply hiding behind claims that the contracts are given through technical errors on eligibility forms.

Once again. A congressman needs to raise 25,000 a day to get enough cash to get elected in a small district. A senator is somewhere in the 200k a day range. Public financing of campaigns would stop a lot of that and create a much better government that might actually represent us.

Government jobs exploded during the Bush administration, that's for sure. Deficit exploded during Regan and hasn't slowed down since.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Rome lasted a while as a republic, but after some time it became the Roman Empire. We all know how that worked out.

To those who suggest "moving to someplace better," where?! Every piece of land that can possibly support human civilization has been claimed by some government or another, whether it's actually inhabited or not. There's NOWHERE LEFT. According to most people, secession and nullification are not options either, so basically what we're being told is that if we're in the minority with our beliefs, we have to just shut up and deal with it.

That's pretty much the truth. If you are in the minority, then get involved in politics. Only way to try to change it.

Either that are move to Haiti. No laws or regulations there. You can do what you want.

You completely missed my point. Libertarians like myself, for example, are in such a minority that the vast majority of the population will vote for someone else. The logical choice, then, would be for a state/region/what-have-you to secede, allowing the libertarian majority in the area to govern themselves, while the US continues governing itself according to the voters there. Any of the citizens of the new country who liked the US better could literally walk across the border back in. No one is forced to support something they despise.

As things stand, there are no options for those of us with issues with the vast majority of government. We just have to sit here and watch as the rest the country votes for people who pass bills that we can do nothing against. All we can do is uselessly try to argue against the bills, and of course, the vast majority will ignore us, instead watching Glenn Beck or Chris Matthews. There's a phrase for that - "the tyrrany of the majority." Or mob rule. Take your pick.

 

[Junkmanme]

True. But Government jobs have increased dramatically in the Obama Administration also....as have the paychecks for those jobs.

Government throws MONEY at problems...but yields few results. But that is what gets Politicians re-elected.

I'm not SOLD on the idea of Public Financing of political races. But, I also dislike the HUGE input of the Multi-National Corporations.
Somewhere there is a better alternative to both these scenarios. One which preserves and enhances the input of an informed Electorate.

Unfortunately, I don't, personally, know the Solution.

-Junkmanme-

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Haha, maybe Fred should, but my point wasn't whether or not Fred the mayor should get the boot, but rather that pretty much anyone has things they try to change, things they vote for because they want them to happen, things they vote against because they do not approve, things they don't agree with, and that is true of people who say "don't like it, get out" or who believe people who have commented here are merely whining (as opposed to expressing genuine concerns). The difference usually is, that many who say "I absolutely love everything about America" actually don't, rather, they merely label things they don't like as unAmerican to be able to mentally cling to this statement. Part of my point is that I hope people take the time to recognize these false divides, and better work instead towards open discussions instead of going in with an exclusionary attitude that does not welcome input.