Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[Happy Chooks]

Here are the 2 cockerels I'm growing out. They are both still going through their juvenile molts - they are 4 months old.

First cockerel has a bit of tail fluff.


This boy I'm really liking so far.




And my 9 month old pullet that thinks she's too pretty to lay an egg.

 

[tls_ranch]

Here are the 2 cockerels I'm growing out. They are both still going through their juvenile molts - they are 4 months old.

First cockerel has a bit of tail fluff.


This boy I'm really liking so far.




And my 9 month old pullet that thinks she's too pretty to lay an egg.

Those boys are looking nice. I only "culled" 2 out of all the cockerels from this batch. One was just the smallest and one was way too red. The rest look very good like your 2 boys and would be considered at least breeder quality. I have 3 others that look nearly identical to your two. Not much white fluff if any at all, but some are starting their moult like you said and will probably start looking pretty rough soon.

Such a pretty pullet I have some slackers too. I think I hatched some too late this year. Maybe I need to reconsider putting lights in my coop. I think that one side is just too dark since it doesn't have a very big window that faces east. I love my coop, but I would build it much differently if I could do it again.

Trisha

 

[Happy Chooks]

Thanks Trisha. I'm very happy with both boys, but I'm really loving the looks on #2. #1 looks like he will have a higher tail set. #2 looks like he'll have a fuller tail and at least right now, looks like he will be more stocky. Both of them have great yellow legs, which is something my flock really needs.

Thanks for the comment on my pullet. It's not the greatest picture of her. She does have really nice lacing and tight feathering. I really want to see her eggs, but she seems to not be in any hurry to give me some.

I love my coops too, but there are still things I would change if I did it again. I think that's normal.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Wonderful to see how many breeders are now at work on the Barnies and to see how far they have come, especially regarding the blues. I believe that the body and shape of the Barnevelder is a very difficult trait to achieve in perfection, along with lacing, ground color, leg color, and comb. I studied numerous Dutch, German, and English articles on the breed, some of them going back to the days when the Barnies were THE thing, and there was a great deal of insight into the various breeding techniques back then (e.g., double mating or single mating, lacing in the male's breast or not, etc.). When I had them, I ended up following the Dutch recommendations and went for single mating setups. Lowell and I had birds hatched out of eggs from the very top breeders in the Netherlands (a special thanks to Hans Schippers who arranged this for us), and the outcome was split pretty evenly between Lowell and me. I also brought in adult birds from British Columbia (the late Horst Greczmiehl) and one other (anonymous) breeder, which were birds whose origins were German. While they were quite similar, the "Dutch" birds were a bit larger, had a larger, thinner comb, and had more of a "sweep" in the back line between the neck and the tail. Birds of both origins were shown at the qualifying meet in the early 1990s here in Washington, and I believe the Canadians brought the majority of the birds (German origin), but I don't recall. I put in quite a few, birds of Dutch origin along with the Dutch/German cross.
The old Dutch literature I accessed led to the discovery of the breed's problems with Marek's Disease, and it was only because I happened across this information that I was able to raise any to adulthood at all. Prior to starting a strict vaccination program for the Barnies, I lost every young chick from age 10 weeks on or so up until roughly around the point of lay. A second egg import from the Netherlands brought us some additional birds, but that was only a couple of years before Lowell's death.
Predation (owls, hawks, eagles, neighbor's dogs, coyotes, and raccoons) along with the constant struggle with Marek's made me give up on them. A few birds were given to local 4-H kids, a couple of trios sold (I was told that some of these were sent off to Sandhill though I don't know for sure), and a few were allowed to live out their life in "retirement" along with the layer birds.
One thing that might be of interest is that our Dutch birds were generally darker mahogany in their ground color and had darker hackles than the others (German), and also darker than what most of the pictures on this thread might suggest. Their lacing was also VERY shiny, more so than current photos indicate (but pictures don't always give a good representation of that feature). Also, the birds we had displayed a relatively long neck and a high tail set (as did the birds shown by a breeder from Vancouver Island in British Columbia at the qualifying show, and I believe he was of Dutch background and had birds with origins in Holland as well). Our birds were not particularly good layers, and the eggshell color left a great deal to be desired. When I say "we" and "our"--I mean the birds that Lowell and I had, and we kept swapping both live birds and eggs for years, also including Ron Nelson in Wisconsin.
A year after I had gotten out of the Barnies, I ran into a couple of ladies at the Western Washington Fair in Puyallup who said that they had acquired some Barnevelders. They asked if I would be willing to critique their birds and eggs if they brought some the next day, which they did. The hens were absolutely stunning! -and the eggs were large and VERY dark. Absolutely unbelievable. I told them how impressed I was and asked if I could have some hatching eggs (though they didn't bring a rooster to show me), which they said they would. They gave me their phone number and name but---I lost the piece of paper somehow. Oh well, it probably wasn't supposed to happen.
The bantam Barnies I brought in from Canada were all of German origin. I eventually sold mine to somebody in Michigan. Other breeders here in the state also imported some of the banties from the same Canadian source and may still have them.
Happy upcoming breeding season, everybody. Take care.

 

[birdnbeast]

Wonderful to see how many breeders are now at work on the Barnies and to see how far they have come, especially regarding the blues. I believe that the body and shape of the Barnevelder is a very difficult trait to achieve in perfection, along with lacing, ground color, leg color, and comb. I

Thanks so much for your insights and contributions. I clipped the posting just for brevity but there wasn't a word unworthy of a repeat. It just made my day (heck, whole week) to read and enjoy your thoughts on this breed that I love sooooooo much. I think my passion tends to get me in 'trouble' as I expound on the subtle beauty and elegance of this breed and its unique shape and style.

Again, thank you for taking the time and consideration to share your experience and thoughts. It was a gift.

k/

 

[pysankigirl]

I guess it shows how ignorant I am but I didn't know Mareks was such an issue with them. do all barnevelder breeders have to vaccinate day-olds as a rule?

 

[birdnbeast]

I guess it shows how ignorant I am but I didn't know Mareks was such an issue with them. do all barnevelder breeders have to vaccinate day-olds as a rule?

With potential buyers of my Barnies, I always express my thought that marek's resistance was/is a problem in these chickens like parvo is to rotts.... I temper my opinion with "that is what I have found in researching the breed" and cannot verify by experience. Maybe next year we will vaccinate the Barnies as hatched but we made a decision to only vaccinate the other breeds for a few years until our Barnies were fairly 'stable' in type that suited us -- that meant I wanted to try to breed in more resistance without any cross breeding, if possible. I do cheat tho, as my 'keeper' or for-breeder placement youngsters are not allowed contact with the ground and are house raised as long as possible.... they make excellent pets, by the way. The two big boys from Trisha live in the computer room right outside the bedroom and only do morning crow when we get up, even late on weekends. Once they go outside to the very open big barn they are in bins on bedding for quite some time and have air-borne exposure but no wild birds, etc. They are susceptible to sore feet from dampness, however, and it becomes somewhat of a nightmare in cleaning time and individual pen feeding, etc. (even when it is not raining we are in a little indent of the hill/mtn that is always damper than 1/2 mi lower or higher).I guess that is why I am so envious of those that can raise out 100-200+ barnies in a year. With my set up, if a chick is sturdy it may make it into getting bred, if not and any show weakness to the cold and dampness they are gone -- permanently. I accepted these difficulties when I feel in love with the breed so please do not take this as a complaint, just a statement of the way things are for me. Your mileage may vary

k/

 

[Happy Chooks]

Thank you for your comments Bjorn! You have a wealth of knowledge that is truly appreciated.

As for vaccinating for Mareks, I do not vaccinate my birds. Granted, I've only had them for a couple of years, but so far, they are doing well.

 

[tls_ranch]

Thank you for your comments Bjorn! You have a wealth of knowledge that is truly appreciated.

As for vaccinating for Mareks, I do not vaccinate my birds. Granted, I've only had them for a couple of years, but so far, they are doing well.

x2 Thank you so much for posting Bjorn. We welcome any info you can offer about Barnevelders. There is so much to learn!!!!

I don't vaccinate and haven't had a problem with Mareks. I've raised 100's of chicks per year and haven't had any major issues except a few bouts of cocci with long term brooder raised chicks. Free ranged chicks and broody raised chicks have had no issues with cocci. My flock is somewhat isolated, but there are other flocks of chickens in the area and plenty of wild birds to spread Mareks if it was here.

I would recommend if you do plan on showing extensively that vaccination would be a good idea. From what I've heard there are other breeds are also strongly susceptible to Mareks. So this isn't just a Barnevelder issue...as it can be a problem with just about any breed as well.

I think that wyandottes, orps and rocks have all been used with creating different lines of Blue Barnevelders here in the US. Do any of those breeds have more resistance to Mareks? If so, maybe the "new blood" will help in the long run with Mareks.

Trisha

 

[tls_ranch]

Just a pic of one of my blue hens..I haven't posted a pic of her since she was a younger pullet. She is just starting to moult and it shows off her lacing. She is a darker blue and has very little "shafting" on her breast feathers. It's a challenge to get even lacing from breast to tail, without shafting and having clean lacing without mossy/peppering (especially on the inner lace). Each generation seems to be improving so I'm happy with that



One of my blue hens that is still laying (What a good girl, LOL). She was hatched a bit later than the ones moulting so hopefully she'll keep laying until late next summer or fall before moulting. She has decent lacing, but she has a bit of "shafting" going on. Hopefully that will be corrected in the next generation.