BDutch's bantam flock & natural breeding projects #5 🪺 🪺 and #6

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@BDutch this looks like an interesting experiment by some of your countryfolk: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-grow-food-on-at-least-half-of-their-property

I assume they can allow chickens and roos (or even backyard pigs, as per your neighbour) if the majority agree to it.
I didn't read the whole story jet but give a reaction to what is allowed in NL.

In the Netherlands you can keep al allowed* animals outside urbanization (built-up area). Within these borders (same area as where they limit speed to 50/30 km hour) you are not allowed to keep roosters and bees in my town unless the people nearby agree. In general animals that don't give a nuisance, can be kept within urbanization limits too.

So if someone who lives nearby makes a complaint, an enforcement officer comes by to give you one or two weeks to solve the problem. Sometimes its possible to solve the noise problem if the rooster can be kept quiet in a special sound proof cage or a darkened cage when he is quiet until 8 in the morning.

Outside the built-up area, people can have roosters.

Backyard mini-pigs don't make noise. So there is no problem as long as (s)he doesn't walk on the street. The pig did this a couple of time when she was in heat. Even an electric fence couldn't keep her inside the barrier. ;) The neighbours got a fine for that because the pig harassed/scared a child. Dogs are not allowed to walk freely. Cats do.

* In the Netherlands wild or exotic animals are not allowed to keep. The government made a new legislation list for mammals. You may buy, keep and sell the animals on this list from 1 July 2024. And you may breed with them. The general welfare requirements apply to these animals. Klik on
Huis- en hobbydierenlijst > to open the list with Dutch and latin names of the mammals if you are interested.
 
They are rarely about real chickens! It's quite shocking how unrepresentative they are, when you get down into the weeds of the methods sections. A lot of distortions are introduced in the name of making all other things equal, bar the thing specifically being investigated. So they start with highly selected inbred lines of production chickens. They choose as near as they can get to identical birds for the experiments. They are often reporting results which involved only sterile chicks, only up to a few weeks old. Sometimes they report results based on older, but cecetomized, birds (birds that have had their caeca surgically removed before the trials started, because the caeca complicate all studies of digestion [that's because the caeca have a large role and impact on digestion :th]); so how valid are results even for whole/entire birds of the same inbred production breeds, based on tests on birds who lack that part of their digestive system, one wonders? I could go on, but I'll spare you another rant on that topic :D


So he has good instincts and is well-behaved, and Janice is smart :D

That is quite a big difference. But Henry is huge relative to the females he lives with, and it doesn't seem to trouble Fret. Or maybe @Shadrach knows otherwise. Maybe he knows what their relative weights are too.
Henry 4.2 Kilograms.
Fret 2.0 kilograms.
A similar ratio to 2.1 to 800grams.
It's not the weight, it's the age. Young roosters and cockerels are not going to be as adroit at mating as a senior established rooster.
 
Henry 4.2 Kilograms.
Fret 2.0 kilograms.
A similar ratio to 2.1 to 800grams.
It's not the weight, it's the age. Young roosters and cockerels are not going to be as adroit at mating as a senior established rooster.

Okay, thank you all for the reactions. Manue has even a larger weight difference with Gaston and Chippie.

You convinced me its not the weight that is a problem. So that leaves me with the age difference. Cockerel + 9 year old hen. As I told in Manues thread, Pearl shrieks with an alarming sound if Whisky grabs her. But she doesn’t seem to avoid his company.

Whisky is not in any way aggressive to me. And apart from the crowing in the morning he is not a problem for the neighbours. They tolerate the crowing because he usually starts at dawn, 7.40 am now. I only heard him once in the middle of the night with stormy weather.

What would you (recommend to) do?
  1. Keep the cockerel within the flock until someone comes to pick him up, who has a flock with younger/larger hens.
  2. Lock him up apart from the flock (see not touch/divide the run) until someone comes to pick him up, who has a flock with younger/larger hens.
  3. Give him to someone next week who is going to finish him off respectfully and eat him. Because its getting very complicated and maybe impossible to keep him after January

IMG_6058.jpeg


Saw a very convincing movie yesterday about a life with/without alcohol.

IMG_6092.jpeg
 
What would you (recommend to) do?
I would not isolate him; chickens are social animals and he's apparently done nothing to deserve solitary confinement.

Other than that, I really think you are the only one who knows the whole situation and can make a good choice. I imagine it is hard for you, and you have my sympathy. :hugs
 
Okay, thank you all for the reactions. Manue has even a larger weight difference with Gaston and Chippie.

You convinced me its not the weight that is a problem. So that leaves me with the age difference. Cockerel + 9 year old hen. As I told in Manues thread, Pearl shrieks with an alarming sound if Whisky grabs her. But she doesn’t seem to avoid his company.

Whisky is not in any way aggressive to me. And apart from the crowing in the morning he is not a problem for the neighbours. They tolerate the crowing because he usually starts at dawn, 7.40 am now. I only heard him once in the middle of the night with stormy weather.

What would you (recommend to) do?
  1. Keep the cockerel within the flock until someone comes to pick him up, who has a flock with younger/larger hens.
  2. Lock him up apart from the flock (see not touch/divide the run) until someone comes to pick him up, who has a flock with younger/larger hens.
  3. Give him to someone next week who is going to finish him off respectfully and eat him. Because its getting very complicated and maybe impossible to keep him after January

View attachment 3999269

Saw a very convincing movie yesterday about a life with/without alcohol.

View attachment 3999270
There is a world of difference between keeping hens and keeping a multi generational, mixed sex, group of chickens.

Generally speaking...
Senior hens are not going to be impressed by the antics of a cockerel. It takes time and considerable adjustment by all parties, including the keeper to establish such a group.
Having a mixture of breeds, particularly bantams and full sized is likely to prove more challenging than having the same breed.
Given you write it's unlikely you can keep the cockerel in the long term then eating him is what I would do. Rehoming unless one knows the keeping conditions he will be going to isn't what I would do, nor is imprisoning him.
He can't help being male and he can't help being young.
 
For the record. Whisky is a bantam too, just way bigger than the Dutch bantams.

True, I am struggling with the choice to make. You are both right.

Whisky is a rather nice chap who doesn’t deserve to be killed. On the other hand if I keep him, he probably will be a problem in the future and I don’t want the neighbours to get annoyed.

Unfortunately he is a bit too big for the standard bantam Amrock and not an interesting bargain for a true bantam Amrock breeder. That makes it difficult to find a new home for him.

Now I do have the opportunity to donate him for a kill to someone with compassion for chickens and experience in culling.

I probably sleep on it for a few more nights to make a final decision.
 
Have you had the chance to talk about it with your neighbours, or is it just that up to now, no one has complained?
Is the person that would kill him humanely for food a possibility just next week, or could it be at any time ?
I know what I would do, but I think it's your decision to make and it's a personal one, ultimately.
 
Have you had the chance to talk about it with your neighbours, or is it just that up to now, no one has complained?
I talked to one neighbor. She said it’s no problem for her as long he doesn’t start to crow in the night.

Another neighbor didnt complain yet. Two years ago I tried to keep a bantam Red rooster (Kwik) but she was not amused when he woke her up, early in the morning in February, at 7 am. She is not mean at all and gave time to find a solution. After a few months I got a reaction on marketplace and she was very glad he found him a new home.
This spring she was very pleased when I could rehome Tintin.

A third neighbor likes the sound of a crowing rooster. :)

And a fourth neighbour never complained. We dont have much contact with them. But our gardens have a few meters in between fence with ivy. I think the ivy and her shed muffles the sound a bit.
Is the person that would kill him humanely for food a possibility just next week, or could it be at any time ?
I know what I would do, but I think it's your decision to make and it's a personal one, ultimately. No
I dont know this person in person. But acquaintances (mother and daughter) in the neighbourhood who had chicks too this summer, have friends in the country who took all the male chicks/juveniles when they started to crow.
The daugher wanted them to grow to adulthood / live longer and was pleased with the solution to give them 2 months more to live and to be killed in a descent way.

The elder daughter told me about her decision and she knows for sure this is as good as it can get. I trust her. She visits the juveniles and her friend every week. These acquaintances are the same people who buy chicken feed for me at the factory 15 km away. And because the minimum is 5 bags we like to share.
 
I talked to one neighbor. She said it’s no problem for her as long he doesn’t start to crow in the night.

Another neighbor didnt complain yet. Two years ago I tried to keep a bantam Red rooster (Kwik) but she was not amused when he woke her up, early in the morning in February, at 7 am. She is not mean at all and gave time to find a solution. After a few months I got a reaction on marketplace and she was very glad he found him a new home.
This spring she was very pleased when I could rehome Tintin.

A third neighbor likes the sound of a crowing rooster. :)

And a fourth neighbour never complained. We dont have much contact with them. But our gardens have a few meters in between fence with ivy. I think the ivy and her shed muffles the sound a bit.

I dont know this person in person. But acquaintances (mother and daughter) in the neighbourhood who had chicks too this summer, have friends in the country who took all the male chicks/juveniles when they started to crow.
The daugher wanted them to grow to adulthood / live longer and was pleased with the solution to give them 2 months more to live and to be killed in a descent way.

The elder daughter told me about her decision and she knows for sure this is as good as it can get. I trust her. She visits the juveniles and her friend every week. These acquaintances are the same people who buy chicken feed for me at the factory 15 km away. And because the minimum is 5 bags we like to share.
It sounds like you have a good supportive community of neighbours.
 

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