Just let me add--if you can't afford a fence for your dogs, people, do what we did! Hire them out for farmhand work. They'll save up enough $$ for that fence in NO time, and maybe a new coop to boot!
Be responsible for your dogs !!!(graphic pics)
- Thread starter zchickens
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THAT's so precious!!! Love it, ninja!
I hope that dog kept that tractor on YOUR property and didn't feel free to joyride through someones else's land....
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Well, this one time, we did have to pay to replace a stretch of fence she knocked over with the box-blade, but since then, we've kept her away from the fence-lines. The miniatures run the push-weeders.
Well, this one time, we did have to pay to replace a stretch of fence she knocked over with the box-blade, but since then, we've kept her away from the fence-lines. The miniatures run the push-weeders.
ok ill chime in here i as many know raise american pitbull terriers and have never had a problem thus far with them killing my chickens. i love animals i love them more than people for the most part and i cant be with out them. that being saidddd i WILL NOT TOLERATE A CHICKEN KILLER if any animal including one of my own or anyone else's or wild kills a chicken its dead no exceptions if u are going to have poultry u must understand that 99 percent of the animals out there especially dogs that kill chicken will do it time after time and will not stop. animals do have the right to be taken care of loved and fed regularly. but that's it that's all they are animals no matter who says what we are the dominant species and must control the others. that's the way god intended in my book. my animals are treated well and so spoiled its not funny but i don't make them human in my mind. as for the neighbor its easy to say do this do that but we do have to next to these people. most of us cant just pick up and move to get away from them. its easy to say call the cops or shoot thier dogs whatever but then u have to watch ur back for a long time and put up with all the vindictiveness that comes with the action and u can tell by them saying u let them out of their kennel that they aren't going to admit they are at wrong and will probably pursue backhanded ways of getting back at you. i would still charge them for ur birds and charge them heavy and give them a gooood firm warning as to what will happen should it occur again. then in my mind its free game time. but be ready to incur the wrath of unstable butthead neighbors. i am sure all of these things have already gone through ur head but i figured i may as well put in my opinion hahaha. be sure to let us know how it all works out for ya.
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Just so I understand--if one of YOUR dogs killed one of your chickens...instead of contacting APBT rescue or BadRap or any of the numerous breed rescue groups for Pits, and enlisting their help in finding your dog a new home where there were NO chickens or other small "prey-like" animals, you'd just go ahead and kill it? Wow.
I guess I'm just stunned, because I know I've seen you speaking of your dogs before, and they seem like wonderful pets.
Just so I understand--if one of YOUR dogs killed one of your chickens...instead of contacting APBT rescue or BadRap or any of the numerous breed rescue groups for Pits, and enlisting their help in finding your dog a new home where there were NO chickens or other small "prey-like" animals, you'd just go ahead and kill it? Wow.
I guess I'm just stunned, because I know I've seen you speaking of your dogs before, and they seem like wonderful pets.
NOW this threads getting interesting.
You know I sat in on a cattle auction for foundation breeding stock along with a friend and the cheaper cows that he was interested in they started bidding at $50,000 and he was tickled to get them for 65 each. Can you imagine your dog going out into some pasture and killing an animal like that instead of a 2 dollar chicken? Lets say you do re-home a livestock killing dog and they do go out and kill a prize horse or someone's cattle. I bet a good lawyer could dump that mess right back into your lap. Ya'll haven't experienced the full affect of dogs till you've rode in the back of a trailer trying to stop the blood coming out of an animal while it is being driven to the vet. And yes I would shoot my own dogs instead of dumping the problem animal on someone else. But it would only be after all other methods of training are exhausted.
- Apr 15, 2008
- 428
- 3
- 139
Quote:
I am sorry, I wasn't referring to you personally. You did NOT attack me. I was referencing the people who had earlier quoted me and then insulted me. I felt it was immature and innappropriate.
I also did not mean to lump all who believe dogs should be fenced in with those who wish to "shoot on sight." I can see how one would interpret that from my statements, and I apologize. I DO respect your opinion, and I DO understand your point of view. I just don't feel it is without some bias.
You said:
As far as "who decides" what is responsible behavior...well, the law, for one. I can guarantee you that if one of us lets our dog run loose, and--let's imagine that the dog is perfectly behaved, and would never hurt any person or animal, but it gets hit by a car, causing an accident in which people are injured and property is damaged, the legal system is not going to say, "Well, we would normally hold the dog-owner responsible, but in this case, the dog-owner just has a different idea of the definition of responsibility."
Absolutely correct, the law DOES determine that. And IF Tim leaves the property, I will indeed accept responsibility. That is a risk I assume, and one I would not take if I didn't feel it was very, very slim. But even if I had a really good fence, and he escaped (which is not only possible, but happens all the time you must admit) and caused damage...I could STILL be held liable. Just saying "But he was fenced in!" will not necessarily protect one from liability either. You take a risk simply by owning an animal that is capable of inflicting or causing damage or injury, whether a horse, dog, cow...
Most people who love animals are willing to assume some risk.
I took means that I am confident, will indeed, prevent him from leaving the property. You took the means that YOU feel works best. Nothing wrong with either. But either of our dogs COULD still leave and cause trouble, no matter what our opinion is of the reliability of our method. I think a really obedient dog will actually be less likely to take off than a dog that resents being fenced and spends his days trying to get out, like our Huskies did. You are welcome to disagree. Just please dont call me irresponsible because you do. I would not dream of calling YOU that.
you admit yourself that your neighbors have no say in whether or not they have a large, unconfined dog (actually wolf hybrid) in their midst. I understand how you think that's OK for you--but is that really fair for them? I kind of doubt they'd think so.
They might not. If word got out, could be a problem. In fact, my town could one day enact laws that ban them all together. Along with Rottweilers, Pitbulls, Dobermans, Huskies, Malamutes, Sharpeis, Chows...and other dogs that the "public" identifies as dangerous. Is THAT really fair either?
Most insurance companies wont even provide homeowners insurance for those who own one of the aforementioned breeds! In my opinion, dogs deserve to be considered "innocent unless proven guilty." You might say that well, by the time they are PROVEN guilty, someone may have been a victim. Sadly, that is true. See, where do you draw the line? No one is going to be able to agree 100% as to what is "fair."
But if you examine the actual "evidence" you will find that realistically, it is very, very rare for a dog that has zero history of ANY kind of aggressive behavior to suddenly get loose and attack someone. There are almost always warning signs-dominant behavior, growling, snarling, a snap when you take their food away. A responsible owner knows their dog, and knows them well. A trustworthy dog would never do any of those things to ANYONE, not just the people they know and love. Truly, if I were to get Tim to harm ANYONE, even a burglar witha gun, I would have to physically take his jaws in my hand and close them over their leg, while simultaneously moving them up and down. Even then, he would probably just slobber on them. I have watched my baby crawl over Tim, explore his eyes, nose, ears, with little probing fingers. He has had his fur pulled, his tail yanked...and never so much as growled. If he truly had enough, he would get up and walk away. (Now, it isnt like I encouraged my kid to torment the dog, by any means. I always intervened, but kids are fast.) A well trained dog respects that PEOPLE, in general, are Alpha. That picture I showed you? That is a typical position for Tim- belly up in the driveway. People sometimes drive by and call us up and say, "Ummm...I think your dog might be dead..." He is a submissive dog, and dogs who are genuinely submissive, not those who are forced to be have submissively, that IS different-will NOT bite. A genuinely submissive dog, will NOT disobey.
Yes, I could fence off a smaller area of the yard, and he would probably be ok with that, but I wouldn't. I live on this beautiful piece of land so that we can ALL wander it and enjoy it. Tim knows the perimeter, I watch him walk it every morning. He leaves the house and goes into the adjacent cornfield to potty-why? Dogs don't like to soil their home, and he views the entire place as his home. He then trots the perimeter, sniffing every tree and weed to see if invaders have come during the night. He also stops to pee on every perimeter tree and bush-marking HIS territory to warn them away. Which probably has something to do with why we do not have a big predator problem. (The cats had a bunny the other day, and I was shocked as I hadn't seen one here in years.) Invaders to Tim are animals that dont live here. Not people. Strangers stop all the time. If Tim feels like putting forth the effort to roll over and leave a prone position, he will then streeeeetttttccccch, lumber over to them and greet them with "Arrroooooooooooorrrrrrroooooowwwwwwrrrrrraaaaa!" And then wait for his scratch behind the ears. If they ignore this expected pleasure he will take a gigantic paw and whack them across the leg with it. Once. And repeat his greeting as if to say, "I said "Nice to meet you." Now scratch my ears dummy. " If they give him a quick pat and walk away he will jump in front of them and plant himself, obstructing access to the door and whack em again. No one enters or leaves without PROPERLY greeting Tim, which means, get down on your knees, take his giant furry head between your hands and give him a good, solid scratching-preferably coupled with "What a good, good beautiful boy you are!" Once his demands have been satisfied, he will snort, wag his tail, and lumber back to his sunbeam. I would bet you my right am that if you show up here, that WILL be the routine. I KNOW my dog. A responsible owner DOES.
I am sorry, I wasn't referring to you personally. You did NOT attack me. I was referencing the people who had earlier quoted me and then insulted me. I felt it was immature and innappropriate.
I also did not mean to lump all who believe dogs should be fenced in with those who wish to "shoot on sight." I can see how one would interpret that from my statements, and I apologize. I DO respect your opinion, and I DO understand your point of view. I just don't feel it is without some bias.
You said:
As far as "who decides" what is responsible behavior...well, the law, for one. I can guarantee you that if one of us lets our dog run loose, and--let's imagine that the dog is perfectly behaved, and would never hurt any person or animal, but it gets hit by a car, causing an accident in which people are injured and property is damaged, the legal system is not going to say, "Well, we would normally hold the dog-owner responsible, but in this case, the dog-owner just has a different idea of the definition of responsibility."
Absolutely correct, the law DOES determine that. And IF Tim leaves the property, I will indeed accept responsibility. That is a risk I assume, and one I would not take if I didn't feel it was very, very slim. But even if I had a really good fence, and he escaped (which is not only possible, but happens all the time you must admit) and caused damage...I could STILL be held liable. Just saying "But he was fenced in!" will not necessarily protect one from liability either. You take a risk simply by owning an animal that is capable of inflicting or causing damage or injury, whether a horse, dog, cow...
Most people who love animals are willing to assume some risk.
I took means that I am confident, will indeed, prevent him from leaving the property. You took the means that YOU feel works best. Nothing wrong with either. But either of our dogs COULD still leave and cause trouble, no matter what our opinion is of the reliability of our method. I think a really obedient dog will actually be less likely to take off than a dog that resents being fenced and spends his days trying to get out, like our Huskies did. You are welcome to disagree. Just please dont call me irresponsible because you do. I would not dream of calling YOU that.
you admit yourself that your neighbors have no say in whether or not they have a large, unconfined dog (actually wolf hybrid) in their midst. I understand how you think that's OK for you--but is that really fair for them? I kind of doubt they'd think so.
They might not. If word got out, could be a problem. In fact, my town could one day enact laws that ban them all together. Along with Rottweilers, Pitbulls, Dobermans, Huskies, Malamutes, Sharpeis, Chows...and other dogs that the "public" identifies as dangerous. Is THAT really fair either?
Most insurance companies wont even provide homeowners insurance for those who own one of the aforementioned breeds! In my opinion, dogs deserve to be considered "innocent unless proven guilty." You might say that well, by the time they are PROVEN guilty, someone may have been a victim. Sadly, that is true. See, where do you draw the line? No one is going to be able to agree 100% as to what is "fair."
But if you examine the actual "evidence" you will find that realistically, it is very, very rare for a dog that has zero history of ANY kind of aggressive behavior to suddenly get loose and attack someone. There are almost always warning signs-dominant behavior, growling, snarling, a snap when you take their food away. A responsible owner knows their dog, and knows them well. A trustworthy dog would never do any of those things to ANYONE, not just the people they know and love. Truly, if I were to get Tim to harm ANYONE, even a burglar witha gun, I would have to physically take his jaws in my hand and close them over their leg, while simultaneously moving them up and down. Even then, he would probably just slobber on them. I have watched my baby crawl over Tim, explore his eyes, nose, ears, with little probing fingers. He has had his fur pulled, his tail yanked...and never so much as growled. If he truly had enough, he would get up and walk away. (Now, it isnt like I encouraged my kid to torment the dog, by any means. I always intervened, but kids are fast.) A well trained dog respects that PEOPLE, in general, are Alpha. That picture I showed you? That is a typical position for Tim- belly up in the driveway. People sometimes drive by and call us up and say, "Ummm...I think your dog might be dead..." He is a submissive dog, and dogs who are genuinely submissive, not those who are forced to be have submissively, that IS different-will NOT bite. A genuinely submissive dog, will NOT disobey.
Yes, I could fence off a smaller area of the yard, and he would probably be ok with that, but I wouldn't. I live on this beautiful piece of land so that we can ALL wander it and enjoy it. Tim knows the perimeter, I watch him walk it every morning. He leaves the house and goes into the adjacent cornfield to potty-why? Dogs don't like to soil their home, and he views the entire place as his home. He then trots the perimeter, sniffing every tree and weed to see if invaders have come during the night. He also stops to pee on every perimeter tree and bush-marking HIS territory to warn them away. Which probably has something to do with why we do not have a big predator problem. (The cats had a bunny the other day, and I was shocked as I hadn't seen one here in years.) Invaders to Tim are animals that dont live here. Not people. Strangers stop all the time. If Tim feels like putting forth the effort to roll over and leave a prone position, he will then streeeeetttttccccch, lumber over to them and greet them with "Arrroooooooooooorrrrrrroooooowwwwwwrrrrrraaaaa!" And then wait for his scratch behind the ears. If they ignore this expected pleasure he will take a gigantic paw and whack them across the leg with it. Once. And repeat his greeting as if to say, "I said "Nice to meet you." Now scratch my ears dummy. " If they give him a quick pat and walk away he will jump in front of them and plant himself, obstructing access to the door and whack em again. No one enters or leaves without PROPERLY greeting Tim, which means, get down on your knees, take his giant furry head between your hands and give him a good, solid scratching-preferably coupled with "What a good, good beautiful boy you are!" Once his demands have been satisfied, he will snort, wag his tail, and lumber back to his sunbeam. I would bet you my right am that if you show up here, that WILL be the routine. I KNOW my dog. A responsible owner DOES.
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That is dominant behavior. Tim is, in dog language, ordering humans to do what he wants. It's already established in his dog brain that he makes decisions and they obey. It's a dangerous attitude with a large dog because it can easily go beyond demanding ear scratches. We don't tolerate it from our dogs. A good way to turn it around is to tell him to, for example, "sit" before you give him the affection he wants. That way, you instantly change the situation from him being rewarded for giving you a command, to him being rewarded for obeying.
That is dominant behavior. Tim is, in dog language, ordering humans to do what he wants. It's already established in his dog brain that he makes decisions and they obey. It's a dangerous attitude with a large dog because it can easily go beyond demanding ear scratches. We don't tolerate it from our dogs. A good way to turn it around is to tell him to, for example, "sit" before you give him the affection he wants. That way, you instantly change the situation from him being rewarded for giving you a command, to him being rewarded for obeying.
- Aug 11, 2008
- 16
- 0
- 22
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Are you seriously joking? I really hope that you never find yourself with a prey driven dog. You would really kill a dog because they have prey drive? wow.
I have 3 prey driven dogs who I know would kill a cat, chicken or other small animal if given the chance- I know this and therefore I adjust our lifestyle to keep my chickens and cats safe from my dogs. THEY ARE DOGS. I can't sit down and have a reasonable conversation with them and ask them not to be prey driven- it's their instinct. My rottweiler is an AKC obedience champion having placed in every trial we've entered, he's super well behaved and an absolutely lovey-dovey boy- but when he goes into prey drive he doesn't hear a thing you say- You can't train the prey drive out of them, you have to know your dog and work with the drives/quirks they have. My other rottweiler wasn't animal prey driven at all. It's not necessarily the breed either-some dogs just have more drive than others.
I have several barn cats, and some of them like to kill on a daily basis- it's what they instinctively do.
It's your job as a GOOD animal owner to keep them safe at all costs-
Are you seriously joking? I really hope that you never find yourself with a prey driven dog. You would really kill a dog because they have prey drive? wow.
I have 3 prey driven dogs who I know would kill a cat, chicken or other small animal if given the chance- I know this and therefore I adjust our lifestyle to keep my chickens and cats safe from my dogs. THEY ARE DOGS. I can't sit down and have a reasonable conversation with them and ask them not to be prey driven- it's their instinct. My rottweiler is an AKC obedience champion having placed in every trial we've entered, he's super well behaved and an absolutely lovey-dovey boy- but when he goes into prey drive he doesn't hear a thing you say- You can't train the prey drive out of them, you have to know your dog and work with the drives/quirks they have. My other rottweiler wasn't animal prey driven at all. It's not necessarily the breed either-some dogs just have more drive than others.
I have several barn cats, and some of them like to kill on a daily basis- it's what they instinctively do.
It's your job as a GOOD animal owner to keep them safe at all costs-
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