Best Dog Breed to Double as Both Housepet and Chicken Guard?

[jvls1942]

we have 3 Maremma. a breeding pair and one male puppy we kept from the last litter.
they are wonderful pets, and still do their job as guardians.
the male comes in only once a day, at dusk, for beggin' strips. then he is back outside .. the female and the pup come in and go out off and on all day long. but they don't stay in long..
it is a mythe that these dogs should not be socialized. You certainly do not want one that is likely to bite someone. not in this day and age .. who wants to get sued ?

we are going to have a litter just before Christmas.. one is sold already..

..........jiminwisc.......

 

[EggSighted4Life]

let me know if I missed anything important or if getting the best of both worlds is downright impossible. Haha.

Hi, welcome to BYC!

It is NOT impossible to have the best of both worlds.

All my dogs are mix breed shelter dogs. 1 lab/pit, 1 hound mix, and a Queensland heeler. They leave the chickens alone yet don't let other dogs, even their friends get too close. This has been going on for 8 years without incident and the dogs were here first. They are very much family pets and do sleep with us at night, regardless of what others think!

In addition to that I have had many friends over with strange dogs that have been taught to ignore the chickens. Chihuahua, maltipoo, and a couple heeler mixes. You have to be able to read the dogs and redirect their focus. But dogs I invited are much different then uninvited stray. Dogs are smart, they are territorial, and they know the difference between friend and fo. All my dogs are fixed, because it saves lives. But I don't think that has any baring on their interaction with the prey animals. My dogs hunt everything else that comes on my property and with 3 they are pretty effective. They still have to discern a chicken in the bush verses some other birds or cat, gopher or whatever.

If you have the time and opportunity, there are lots of pure breed dog and good mixes at sooo many shelters! I suggest getting an idea of dog type and visiting several times until you find the one that's calling your name!

In my family, we like to let the dog choose us instead of just grabbing one from a litter. We go hand out for a while. Some will come and interact while others will have zero interest. The zero interest ones are not for us.

I will say that in MY experience, females are much more human oriented and males seem to be more independent and property oriented. Too fluffy will be too hot for indoors, maybe try to find a happy medium. Avoid Jack Russel's or really any terrier for your best result with chickens. I agree that young pups may have a harder time and used to think older dogs wouldn't bond to you. But they do and become just as special as one that's been with you since puppy-hood.

And your old dog may or may not appreciate the company. I personally would get the opposite sex. And something not too hyper.

Dogs and chickens are both great pets! I hope you find one that works really well for your family! You sound fairly smart and discerning, I'm sure you can.

 

[SOHC-FTW]

My bully does great with our chickens people and other animals in general.

 

[Creteloc]

Even though poodles were trained as duck retrievers, mine is super protective of my chickens. He loves to sit outside of their run and watch them. He follows them around when they are loose and will cuddle with them when they come to him. He was freaking out, crying, scratching, and barking at the door when my two little girls were taken from their coop this weekend. We thought he was being obnoxious, but now we realize he was trying to save them.

Maybe it's not the breed as much as the temperament of the individual dog.

 

[PirateGirl]

Wow, this thread has come a long way and you've gotten some great advice!

I want to confirm you can have both, a dog that's a good family pet and a good working dog. My dogs sleep in the house, next to my bed. Last night my dog woke me up at 4:00am. At this hour it usually means the dog has to go out and pee, but the dog wouldn't go out. You need to learn to read your dogs (as well as them learning the things you train them to do). I know my dog would not wake me in the night for no reason. I know my dog would not refuse to go out given the opportunity. I need to know/learn what my dog is telling me, and it takes a minute to process at 4:00am sometimes, but what my dog is really telling me is that the coyotes are here. My dog is working even in the middle of the night while sleeping next to my bed. She alerted me the coyotes were here. I can go turn on outside lights and look at windows and check the chickens. Dogs are smart. Do not ignore them when they are trying to tell you something.

You also asked about training. The basic training is the same. The techniques are the same. You are training your dog to "ignore" things that are exciting. This could be running kids, cars, the trash, the food on your dinner table, and the CHICKENS. You are teaching calming behaviors and ignoring stimulus. Encourage being calm throughout the day, even when there is no exciting stimulus. Its easier for dogs to learn to be calm when there's nothing around to excite them, then you can slowly start adding distractions for them to ignore. Lot's of sitting and staying and laying down and petting and treats and talking in a soothing voice. If you are calm your dog will read this and understand that there's nothing to be worked up about. We did lots of sitting next to the chicken coop (chickens locked behind a fence, could be seen and heard by the dog), and being calm. I'd just sit there in the lounge chair daily and make my dog sit next to me and pet her and tell her how good she was. Whenever she would get up/get excited by the chickens I'd make her come back to me and sit next to me (but you need to teach come and sit first, without chickens around). Once she could be calm around chickens I moved to giving her a job to do and pairing it with a command. Now in the morning instead of just asking the dog if she wants to "go out" I ask her if she wants to "check the chickens" and together we go straight from the front door to the chicken coop. She now associates this phrase with going to the coop and I can tell her to do it and she will go to the coop without me. When we are at the coop together we "check the chickens" and we walk a full lap around the coop and run. This is all very exciting for my dog and she is automatically rewarded by eating chicken food and chicken poop that has come through the fence (dogs love it, I can't stop it, it reinforces the positive behavior of circling the coop so I just go with it). After doing all this with me repeatedly, she knows to go "check the chickens" on her own, I can just send her out the front door and she runs out and does a lap around the coop. She will sound the alarm if anything is amiss and I don't even have to go outside.

I hope some of this helps and you can see the training steps and transitions. You'll get there and it will be rewarding for both you, the chickens, and the dog! Good luck.

 

[KettermanHillCoop]

Norwegian Elkhound...

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I've looked at some guard dog articles, questions, and threads, but most focus on just the guarding aspect and even say guard dogs shouldn't double as housepets or get attention outside the guarding area. (which makes sense) I know, with training, many breeds can be taught to look after chickens, but finding a breed that is inclined toward it would be nice. Here's the situation...Sorry about the wall of info and I hope this is in an appropriate section.

Family member wants a new dog that will keep our very old house dog company in his remaining years and also keep them company when they are home and sleep with them at night. They think they can raise a dog, but I am 100% certain they will not, so I will be raising/training/spending time with it the majority of the time. I have owned or had experience with many breeds before, but never taught one to be near the chickens as the chickens/ducks are a very recent addition to the family.

Personally, I would like a dog that will look after my chickens while they free range during the day and keep hawks and stray predators away. As well as perhaps some unattentive neighbor's escaped dog out for a joyride... (lost some chickens to this) Though we also have a renter with a dog. So I'm not sure if keeping other dogs away from chickens without being aggressive is a thing. If it isn't, disregard. I don't need it kicking the snot out of unfamiliar dogs.

There is no need for a nighttime guard dog as their coop does just fine. And it would only be out there to watch them when I am home, so it would mostly function as a house dog. While I like the thought of a guardian dog, I would settle for a dog that could be easily taught to leave the chickens and ducks alone when it's outside with me while I'm doing chores or to play. We also have 2 ducks.
We're on about 10 acres, partially fenced off for a couple of horses. And we have a few cats that blissfully ignore the chickens.

Family member is quite picky, and wants a large or semi-large fluffy dog, but doesn't like Mastiffs or Pyrenees.

With all this in mind, I'm not sure if there is any good solution to what we should get, but there are many a dog breed out there, and I wasn't sure where else to look for advice. So thoughts are very appreciated. Thank you! And let me know if I missed anything important or if getting the best of both worlds is downright impossible. Haha.

I too would recommend a herding breed from a working line such as the smooth coated Collie. (While the rough coated Collie would be a wonderful animal too, trust me, that coat is the fuzzy side of the velcro and takes a lot to brush out after a bath).

Collies are sweet tempered, alert, environmentally sensitive with a healthy sense of stranger danger. The working lines have natural herding instincts without the typical energy drive of the Border Collie or Aussie or Heeler, and they are deeply loyal and affectionate with their family. Collies make great kid dogs.

Choose a pup from a breeder that has taken the time to do all the necessary genetic and health testing for your animal, it will save you much grief later on.

Yes, if you have time and training skill, almost any dog can be trained to do what you want, but some would take a lot of conditioning and others simply wouldn't fit the bill. Some simply luck out and have an "off" breed that does the job as every animal is an individual, and every situation and owner is unique. But you asked for general recommendations.

While I am fond of rescue animals, and have a Rat Terrier at my feet as I type from a rescue, most rescues come with previous "baggage" meaning behavior issues. Many have been roughly handled, and it takes a long time to build trust and retrain. (Mine was absued/feral...he now eagerly Netflix surfs by day and rats by night lock up, leaving birds alone).

I recommend a puppy for your needs. That means it won't be doing any chicken policing anytime soon, but you'd have to buy an adult either trained or see above...chances are you'd have to do a lot of retraining.

Every dog owner has his/her favorite breed, and every trainer as his/her favorite techniques. And again, every dog is an individual. Having been a puppy raiser in the Guide Dog for the Blind training program for 7 years, I can say that positive reinforcement goes a lot further than negative, and if you want a dog to trust you, avoid any severe treatment.

Any reinforcement, positive or negative, should happen within a 3 second window of the event or the dog will not likely attach that result to that event. Learn to read your dogs emotions and drives, rewarding those you desire.

Prevention is the number one trainer in a pup (or older dog). Prevent your pup from getting into wrong behaviors in the first place. That means do not leave the pup alone by itself to find entertainment. It will find something to do, just not what you want it to do. Retraining is much, much harder than training right the first time. Dogs are opportunists, and anything that gives an immediate adrenal rush reward will be cemented quickly. (Garbage can, chasing chickens, etc.)

Use of crate training, dragline/leash and lots of food treats with basic obedience is essential especially if you have a sensitive herder who learns quickly from positive rewards. Good training will take time and consistency.

Good luck with your dog search. Let us know what you find.
LofMc

 

[fawndane]

We have a purebred Bloodhound that comes up to our farmhouse at least once a week. (He was here yesterday.) He is very sweet, very big, and doesn’t bother the birds free-ranging. I don’t know if he is a good guardian, he seems mostly like a lover, not a fighter. Will post pic on this thread if I see him again soon.

 

[lcwmt]

I have an Australian Shepherd/Catahoula mix. I had her before I had chickens as my companion and hiking buddy and as a companion and partner in crime to my older dog. She was always on the protective side, not aggressive, but barks with fur up at strangers, gets between me and strangers, barks at strange dogs if they come in our yard. She likes other dogs and once people are "safe" she begs for their affection, but the "stranger danger" thing is instinctual to her (much more than any retriever breed I have had in the past). She is smart and trainable, and now that I have chickens, they are her chickens. She would prefer to be with the family when we are home, but will go out in the yard on her own to "check the chickens" and she alerts me if neighbor dogs (or predators) are around and gets between them and the chickens. We've seen her protecting our cat from a neighbor dog as well.

Perhaps look at breeds that are good "watch dogs" instead of "guard dogs." These are breeds that will alert you to things, but generally have less aggression and may be less inclined to attack (unless really provoked). Also breeds that are traditionally farm working dogs, even if they are traditionally bred to work with sheep or cattle, the same personality type will translate well to working with your chickens. These are dogs that are usually smart and trainable and bonded to their human/farmer/pack leader. They are also dogs that are happier with a job to do than they are just lazing around the house, which means they will be inclined to work for you on their own. My Aussie mutt is much happier patrolling the coop and hunting in the wood pile than my retriever, she is always busy. Keep in mind the same type of personality can be more challenging in the home setting. They aren't immediately friends with everyone. They want to be busy and will find ways to "work" even inside (mine is fond of scattering the recycling all over the house, and needs to be able to see out all windows to know what intruder may be making those sounds, so this may necessitate climbing on furniture and opening blinds). She also begs for attention and affection in a demanding way because just hanging out is too boring if she hasn't run enough and isn't checking the chickens.

Just things to think about. I hope this has given you some factors to weigh in your decision making.

exactly!!!
herding dogs, even mixes, need jobs, want to please, and can be easily persuaded that the chickens are "theirs'.

 

[vanillachai]

Everyone, thank you so much for all of your suggestions, stories and advice!! I'm certain I will be reading through them, and any posts to come, often during our search for a dog and while raising it. The time when we get it is still a ways away as we have much deciding and preparation to do. I will make sure to update when we finally get our new family member. Thanks again! The community here is always so supportive. I'm very grateful for your help.