Black Copper Maran [Sport?] Chick - Pictures:

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by QuailHollow, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Quote:Have you hatched out Wade Jeane chicks, Doc? I have yet to hear of one person who has hatched his birds that are clean legged or a wheaten directly. I would like to hear from folks who know for sure their birds are from Wade Jeane and for sure have thrown wheatens from a BCM hatch. If folks haven't experienced this directly, it seems like a rumor, and not a very nice one. Not trying to pick an argument, but this is part of why there is a divide in the Marans community. I think it is unfair to repeat hearsay without direct knowledge. JMHO. [​IMG]

    It's not a rumor. Wade has said so himself. I've got the quote stored somewhere in my archives. Is that direct enough for ya? [​IMG]

    There's nothing awful about a line throwing wheatens. After all, that's where wheatens came from in the first place. It's just a recessive gene floating around. I think the main reason why there is "a divide in the Marans community" is because people attach too much emotional weight to discussions of the details of breeding programs.

    There is no perfect person and no perfect breeding program. The best way to make progress is to be rational and open about discussing problems.
     
  2. Quote:Have you hatched out Wade Jeane chicks, Doc? I have yet to hear of one person who has hatched his birds that are clean legged or a wheaten directly. I would like to hear from folks who know for sure their birds are from Wade Jeane and for sure have thrown wheatens from a BCM hatch. If folks haven't experienced this directly, it seems like a rumor, and not a very nice one. Not trying to pick an argument, but this is part of why there is a divide in the Marans community. I think it is unfair to repeat hearsay without direct knowledge. JMHO. [​IMG]

    It's not a rumor. Wade has said so himself. I've got the quote stored somewhere in my archives. Is that direct enough for ya? [​IMG]

    There's nothing awful about a line throwing wheatens. After all, that's where wheatens came from in the first place. It's just a recessive gene floating around. I think the main reason why there is "a divide in the Marans community" is because people attach too much emotional weight to discussions of the details of breeding programs.

    There is no perfect person and no perfect breeding program. The best way to make progress is to be rational and open about discussing problems.

    That is very helpful. I agree. And hearing it from Wade directly helps too.
     
  3. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

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    I do have a question though, these birds ALL seem to have clean legs [​IMG] I don't have any Jeane birds but all the pics I have seen have some degree of feathering......is there a different line of Jeane birds that have clean shanks? anyone have experience with this? [​IMG]
     
  4. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Quote:Keep in mind that genetic drift can happen very quickly. For instance, I have three pullets that were hatched by Ron Presley birds. They are only one generation removed from Presley's farm. Yet they are ALL clean legged. If one of them were a roo and I bred them, I would be producing 100% clean legged offspring -- only two generations removed from Ron! But that does NOT mean that many of Ron's own birds are clean legged -- it just means that I got the short end of the genetic stick. [​IMG]

    Similarly, if these BC eggs were not directly from Wade Jeane or Charles Logan, then the same sort of drift could have easily happened in the intervening generations. When most people are keeping very small flocks, it's easy for this sort of thing to happen!
     
  5. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

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    wow, I didn't know you could lose the feathers that fast.... [​IMG]

    maybe I won't work on the bc and just stick to getting feathers onto the golden cuckoos and get some blue birchen going....seems like enough people are working on the bc [​IMG]

    eta- I just had a duh moment... I guess if you could gain feathers in one generation then it just stands to reason that the opposite could happen too....
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  6. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Quote:Yup, especially when people don't cull their flocks. I don't think there's anybody who consistently produces 100% feathered shank offspring -- ya gotta constantly keep selecting to keep them going!

    maybe I won't work on the bc and just stick to getting feathers onto the golden cuckoos and get some blue birchen going....seems like enough people are working on the bc [​IMG]

    That's kinda what I thought. I'm going with the wheaten/blue wheaten and birchen/blue birchen. But keep in mind that there is a LOT of work to be done with them.

    Another choice for your current BCs is to simply purchase a roo with feathered shanks, and breed him to your clean legged pullets. The offspring, at least a good percentage of them, will have feathered shanks. [​IMG]
     
  7. Katy

    Katy Flock Mistress

    Quote:JMO, but I think there lots of people selling birds and eggs, but only a few really working on the BCs.
     
  8. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

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    Quote:JMO, but I think there lots of people selling birds and eggs, but only a few really working on the BCs.

    oh, yes I agree...
    I have bc's but not *great* lines, still waiting for them to lay....
    I did get 1 pullet and 2 cockerals from eggs I got from Richard, but that is the only *quality* pullet I have.......the rest I would consider pet quality...
     
  9. Quote:JMO, but I think there lots of people selling birds and eggs, but only a few really working on the BCs.

    Well I am starting to work on mine, but I cannot possibly hatch all these chicks from my eggs, so I will definitely be selling some. And I refuse to hatch merely to cull. I know some do that. I just am not willing to breed that way.

    When I got my wheatens from Buddy, he said that he and Ron had issues with the feathered shanks, so I bought them knowing this. I have no problem buying knowing there are flaws, just so long as they are represented if I ask.

    Edited to add: Oh I meant to also say, I have hatched out about 4 dozen Copper Blacks, maybe a bit more, and they are all feather shanked. The coloring of the breast is not consistent and varies, as do the quality of the combs. This is going to be quite a lot of work to get where I would like my line to be.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  10. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Songster

    Golden Cuckoo Marans are basically copper blacks with barring. One colour can be used to improve the other.
    Leg feathering; while one probably doesn't want to loose it, probably isn't the most important consideration when breeding Marans. If one makes sure that one still has some birds with leg feathering in ones line, it won't be totally lost.
     

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