black meat breeds, silkies ect....

[DCchicken]

DC it's just that I've read on different fm forums your mentioning the GF gene....looking at the Sumatra except for the Gypsy Face..is tis anaha moment here??!!..GF...means Gypsy Face? ...if so how could hyperpigmented face eventually wipe out suppress pretty much the FM gene expression in the Sumatra breed ?

I don't know why this didn't add up earlier.

I have the 90% AC hybrids..eggs coming in a few days...I paid the huge extra for 'priority express'..hope for better shipping handling this way and some good fm birds from these.
They always say don't count your chickens before they're hatched...hahaha...will I ever learn?

It is the other way around. The Sumatra lost the FM genes but retained the GF modifier. And yes GF stands for gypsy faced. I hate that term as it seems racist to me. It is the modifier that causes birds to have black faces. It is found in many breeds including Hedemora and Birchen Marans.

Some Cemani breeders are working on reintroducing the GF modifier in their Cemani lines by crossing them to Sumatra and the crossing back several generations. The very best FM birds have two copies of the FM gene plus the GF modifier.

 

[DCchicken]

DC- no honas laying again yet?

Yes they are laying (slowly). It seems to have been triggered by the cold weather at night. I am running fertility tests right now.

 

[DCchicken]

Gloryblue,

I didn't mean that by using Black Javas and Sumatras, that these two are already Fm birds. Black Javas just have ancestors from which the Ayam Cemani was created from and the Sumatras also contain Cemani gene somewhere in there. So, if you know and have time/space/money to throw around, one can eventually breed up with a Cemani morph type bird with Black Java X Sumatra breeding.

Read from this link, then reread from the beginning of that same thread and you will get why to use those two breeds I mention above.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ring-the-significance-of-cemani-mutations/110

My research indicates that the American Java was created using Ayam Kedu. However, just like the Sumatra, the Java lost the FM gene along the way in breeding, probably when it was crossed with something in America to increase its size.

 

[DCchicken]

I thought Bresse have blue legs and light skin, not yellow or white legs? Don't they start as yellow leg chicks, then get blue as they age?

Agree, back crossing/line breeding will have to be utilize, to maintain Fm genes for a few generations until you get stable Fm genes.

Bresse have slate legs that darken (or should darken if the lines are pure) to blue as they reach maturity. Their skin is white. However, if you cross them with yellow legs, you actually get white legs. I am working on this cross right now that consists of Cream Legbar and Bresse. It is producing Dominant White birds with white legs and crests that lay blue-green eggs. A small percentage of the offspring produce slate legs that darken to blue. But interesting enough, those birds have no crest.

 

[bluenkimchi]

My research indicates that the American Java was created using Ayam Kedu. However, just like the Sumatra, the Java lost the FM gene along the way in breeding, probably when it was crossed with something in America to increase its size.

I'm sure Ayam Kedu was one of them and some other Mediterranean breed(maybe Minorca?) was cross. Then when the Original Java form finally arrive to America, was further cross bred to other breeds, to be the standard bird of today.

So, is anyone willing to experiment with Java hen X bantam Sumatra roo and let us know how it turns out for them?

 

[bluenkimchi]

Bresse have slate legs that darken (or should darken if the lines are pure) to blue as they reach maturity. Their skin is white. However, if you cross them with yellow legs, you actually get white legs. I am working on this cross right now that consists of Cream Legbar and Bresse. It is producing Dominant White birds with white legs and crests that lay blue-green eggs. A small percentage of the offspring produce slate legs that darken to blue. But interesting enough, those birds have no crest.

Thanks for clarification...........................Interesting cross of Legbar and Bresse. I guess with that LB X Bresse cross, it's not really an olive egger, since it's White shell X Blue shell = light green or light blue eggs?

 

[DCchicken]

Thanks for clarification...........................Interesting cross of Legbar and Bresse. I guess with that LB X Bresse cross, it's not really an olive egger, since it's White shell X Blue shell = light green or light blue eggs?

Yes light greenish blue eggs similar to the "blue" eggs of some Cream Legbar lines. The project originally started because I wanted a bigger, fatter Cream Legbar. But I like the white feathers with the crest. The pullets are bigger than the Cream Legbar roo that fathered them.

 

[bluenkimchi]

I bet they make great tasty meat birds

I have always wonder about Bresse, are they soft texture and bland like those Cornish X store bought birds or a bit more texture?

Have you had any American gamefowl type of birds before, they aren't much to look at or eat, but I like that more than those bland baby cornish X birds. Same with oriental gamefowl birds, a lot of texture/flavor and chewing on older birds, but younger birds(birds under a year old) are fine.

Those Cemani and Kedu you had process are probably the same as the Gamefowl?

 

[DCchicken]

I bet they make great tasty meat birds

I have always wonder about Bresse, are they soft texture and bland like those Cornish X store bought birds or a bit more texture?

Have you had any American gamefowl type of birds before, they aren't much to look at or eat, but I like that more than those bland baby cornish X birds. Same with oriental gamefowl birds, a lot of texture/flavor and chewing on older birds, but younger birds(birds under a year old) are fine.

Those Cemani and Kedu you had process are probably the same as the Gamefowl?

The last Bresse I processed were not very good. They were 8 months old and had been running around free-ranging so they were very tough. But they were excellent chicken dumplings. I haven't gotten to process since then as they almost always get sold. My sister also breeds them. But she does the capon thing and in much larger numbers as that is her only breed. I am looking forward to tasting one next month when I go for a visit.

I don't blame the Bresse I processed. It was winter and I didn't have anyone to process until Spring. And I didn't do the fattening up part at the end.

The Cemani and Kedu I processed were excellent but very small averaging only about 2 pounds dressed. They did make very good ginseng chicken soup.

I only have one Game which was a gift from Toni-Marie Astin. She lives with my Kedu right now.

 

[Double Kindness]

I'm getting my bresse from dcchicken's sister btw. I didn't know she caponized them too, as that's my plan for the roos I don't decide to breed with (they will get the decrowing surgery via local vet that I got a semi-quieted rooster from)... too bad I can't just buy young capons from her.

The 6 chicks I have atm have no destiny set in stone per se. My friend that has the not Smithsonian line of ayam cemani from Mike Bean is hatching 20+ purebreed ayam cemani, not the haffies in the next 2 weeks (she has 9 more of my batch atm) for me to still choose from. What should I be looking for in newly hatched chicks? As far as both breeding a larger black/gray/blue meat chicken that will dress out at 4 lbs within 6 months as a capon.

I'm really hoping that out of 6 4 aren't roos, or 5 lol, but if they are, they're likely headed to freezer camp. One seems quite large and I suspect it's definitely a roo. Idk anything about sexing chicks though.

Next weekend I'm picking up 40 gallons of raw goats milk to feed the chickens to soak their feed after caponizing, I hear that makes them even more tender? I'm hoping to have 1 of these chicks ready for Christmas dinner? Is that a realistic goal for a dinner for 2 people?

Ginseng has a very earthy flavor to me, but it has great beneficial properties and effects, does the black chicken soup need to have it as a component?

This could turn out to be very interesting, I'm especially keen on the auto sexing of the fm roo over non fm hens producing mostly pullets that are fm to a degree and low % of males and they are mostly clear/pink skinned, is that correct from my understanding?