Blood in poo or just intestine?

[GuppyTJ]

How did everything turn out? Just wanted to see how your feather babies were fairing?

Hi There,

I think you are really directing this question at Rachel, the original poster, but thought I'd offer an update on my chickens with the red poo and the green poo. The red poo never re-appeared and everyone is healthy. I never did find out what it was.

However... on that florescent green/bright yellow poo case I had earlier that I wrote about? According to R.M. Qureshi, this is indicative of E. Coli or some other bacterial infection. R.M. Qureshi is in the process of preparing an updated, more comprehensive poopology reference and is asking for pics from people. He seems to be an expert of some kind although I don't know his true credentials but based on how he writes and his level of knowledge. Here is the BYC thread and a link to the reference he's creating.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/815354/trying-to-prepare-a-poopology-data-base

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=A99F88838D34E678!250&authkey=!AAOQW5GvPFg0J30

If you can help him compile this body of work, I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Hope this helps,

Guppy

 

[casportpony]

Hi There,

I think you are really directing this question at Rachel, the original poster, but thought I'd offer an update on my chickens with the red poo and the green poo. The red poo never re-appeared and everyone is healthy. I never did find out what it was.

However... on that florescent green/bright yellow poo case I had earlier that I wrote about? According to R.M. Qureshi, this is indicative of E. Coli or some other bacterial infection. R.M. Qureshi is in the process of preparing an updated, more comprehensive poopology reference and is asking for pics from people. He seems to be an expert of some kind although I don't know his true credentials but based on how he writes and his level of knowledge. Here is the BYC thread and a link to the reference he's creating.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/815354/trying-to-prepare-a-poopology-data-base

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=A99F88838D34E678!250&authkey=!AAOQW5GvPFg0J30

If you can help him compile this body of work, I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Hope this helps,

Guppy

I've seen lots of e. Coli poop (confirmed by necropsies or lab work), and it wasn't either of those colors, so while I appreciate what he's trying to do, there is no substitute for having proper lab work done.

-Kathy

 

[GuppyTJ]

I've seen lots of e. Coli poop (confirmed by necropsies or lab work), and it wasn't either of those colors, so while I appreciate what he's trying to do, there is no substitute for having proper lab work done.

-Kathy

Thanks for this, it's helpful given the number of necropsies and lab work you've had done.

It's so hard to know, given the different observations and views. I think you're absolutely right about the value of necropsies and lab work. However, I am one of those folks who's not really in a position to get lab work done, for a variety of reasons. So, my approach will be to use available resources and build up my skills in this area to the best I can. One thing I just read about in The Chicken Health Handbook is how to conduct a home lab test and how to match the results against pictures in a reference called the Veterinary Clinical Parasitology book. I'm going to ask for the book and a child's microscope for Christmas.

I also started butchering my extra cockerals for the dinner table and in the process learning quite a bit about internal organs. Doing this helps me understand what (presumed) healthy chickens look like internally. When I get a sick chicken, I again hope to use The Chicken Health Handbook as it tells what to look for in a necropsy per each illness.

Anyway, trying to learn and do things myself. It's just how I need to do things, as a necropsy and/or lab work isn't an option for me. Me doing it isn't going to be NEARLY as scientific or accurate as an expert doing it, to be sure. Yet, I'm sure I'll learn a great deal in the process and I'll improve.

Kathy, if you remember, what was the condition of the poo for E.Coli in your case, do you recall or have pics by chance? Again, just trying to build my knowledge base.

Much thanks,
Guppy

 

[casportpony]

I'll see if I can find the pictures of the e. Coli poop from earlier this year. FYI, my avatar reflects my state of mind, not my ability to do any lab work, lol, that I let the vet and the UC Davis Lab do, I just chase poultry around and clean up poop!

But sometimes I will do my own necropsies, very educational. Have lots of those pics, too.

-Kathy

 

[CarolinaSkies]

The only side effect is after long term use,possible thiamine(vitamine B1)deficiency. This information comes from Veterinary manuals that i have studied. Your chick that died in above mentioned post,had classic Cocci symptoms. Coccidiosis is the leading cause of deaths in chicks,kills very fast,but is so easily controlled with proper medication. I would never advise anyone to wait and see,by that time your chicks may be dead.

Hi Ten Chicks,

I didn't mean to be disagreeable, I was only sharing my experience and my approach. We each might do things differently, which is why this forum is so helpful as someone finding their own way can hear different approaches. All of our situations are different too, which leads to different courses of action. Yes, cocci is a killer, no doubt, yet as I shared in my description, there can be other extenuating circumstances. Just sharing other things to think about is all.

Could you share the titles of your vet manuals? I'm always up for another great chicken health resource. I shared my resource above, which states Vitamin A and K but I'm sure it could be B as well. Many scholarly resources indicating the use of coccidiostats, even for just the 5 day period, degrades vitamins A and K. I'd have to look it up but I believe the reason is that several of the protozoa types use these vitamins to multiply and the coccidiostats work by depleting these nutrients.

But in case it helps, I use a lot of different scholarly resources so in case it helps others, here are a few of them. I only use scholarly resources as there is so much on the internet (and in BYC) that is not necessarily factual. I always try to remember to state my source too so people know where I'm getting the info.

http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-medicine/

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/poultry/coccidiosis/overview_of_coccidiosis_in_poultry.html

http://www.cabi.org/isc/fulltextpdf/2009/20093257328.pdf

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

In addition, I don't understand when you say that my chicken died from "classic cocci symptoms" as I didn't share what the symptoms were! The symptoms/conditions were: the perfect age for Marek's, unbalanced, difficulty walking, eventual paralysis with one leg forward, one back, irregular iris but eating well and acting fairly normal otherwise. The iris is the tell-tale symptom, the others could be something else, but the iris... Marek's, I'm afraid. I only wish it had been cocci as Marek's is untreatable and results in pretty much 100% mortality when it moves from dormant to the active stage of the virus. The other chicken, the one with the florescent green poo, tinged with yellow, was possibly due to a toxin she ingested. I free range (no run, no fence) so she could have gotten something that made her sick. Even moldy grain can cause this. But nowhere does florescent green poo with some yellow in it show up as a symptom for cocci, not that I've ever run across at least. If you have a reference for this, I'd be interested in that one too. Always up for learning new things.

It can be challenging to diagnose chicken disorders. Many things look like other things. It's great to hear different approaches and perspectives. That's what I like most about learning from everyone here.

In the morning, I'll have a good indication on if my decision to not medicate with Corid was the right one or not. I wrote down where everyone was roosting so I will be able to confirm which chicken it is and isolate that one. I tried to keep an eye on them today and on their poo as I did my farm chores and I didn't/couldn't find any red poo. I even watched every one of them poo at least once and checked it out, no blood. But I know cocci doesn't produce blood on every poo. Ah well... time will tell. I hope my backyard diagnosis was right...!

Thanks much,
Guppy

Very helpful information from all. I currently have our 8 week old chicks on Corid day 3 based on intestine in poo, drooping, etc. I've continued feeding them flock raiser feed while on the meds, but after looking at your posts about riboflavin, vitamin k and vitamin A I'm wondering if I should have them on a different feed during Corid treatment. What do you all think?
Thank you,
CarolinaSkies

 

[Eggcessive]

Flock Raiser while they are on Corid is fine. Corid inhibits thiamine in the cocci oocysts in the gut, so you just don't want to feed extra vitamins while they are on on Corid. Since the disease causes loss of vitamins A and K, after treatment a multivitamin such as PolyVisol baby vitamins (2 drops a day by mouth,) along with ACV in the water, and giving either probiotics or plain yogurt with cultures will help boost the gut bacteria and replenish the vitamin losses.

 

[CarolinaSkies]

TY for clearing that up. Wow, why did my brain store riboflavin instead of thiamine? Lumosity, here I come!