Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I'm curious about this as there is NO question birds that are very much larger than recommended in the Standard are winning at the shows - in all breeds and all divisions (Silkies included.) In this day and age of digital, it's easy enough to weigh a chicken and I've weighed ALL of mine. I know most of mine are over SOP weight and the birds that beat (or not) them at the shows are even bigger - in every case. So, what gives???

Don't even get me started on the White Rocks. Those dudes were bigger than the Jersey Giants - neither of which are my breeds so I have no vested interest but I am taking note.

 

[NYREDS]

Really? I would think an experienced judge would be able to guess weight within 4 oz. It would only need to be weighed if it's close or the judge is unsure. I would say any bird that was DQ'd would need exact weight documented just to keep the griping down. But that raises the question of what if some birds are not DQ'd but are borderline and not weighed? Is there a procedure to contest a bird that is not DQ'd that should be?

Just wondering. I've only visited shows and never shown anything other than market turkeys at the county fair.

There is a procedure for protesting the judge's decisions but it is rarely used. Last time I saw someone file a protest was 1966.

 

[mschlumb]

Really? I would think an experienced judge would be able to guess weight within 4 oz. It would only need to be weighed if it's close or the judge is unsure. I would say any bird that was DQ'd would need exact weight documented just to keep the griping down. But that raises the question of what if some birds are not DQ'd but are borderline and not weighed? Is there a procedure to contest a bird that is not DQ'd that should be?

Just wondering. I've only visited shows and never shown anything other than market turkeys at the county fair.

Yes, if one bird is weighed all of them need to be weighed to be fair, if my bird gets weighed and points get docked for being off weight I would want to make sure that all other birds were also weighed and points cut accordingly. And yes unmistakeable evidence has to be there in order to DQ anything for any reason, therefore a judge can't simply guess a weight. A judge can't just say "well I think this bird is 20% over/under weight" with no evidence. The question you raised is why all birds would have to be weighed if one is weighed.

You can file a complaint with the show management, if you feel you were treaed unfairly. there is a whole process for that which i will not go into detail on.
hope this answered your question

 

[NotAFarm]

Frankly, I don't give a fig...........

Let the good breeders do their job. Kathy from Mo has done a remarkable job on her Delawares and look what she has done also to promote New Hampshire's and Barred Rocks as well. Many of you would not have the birds in your yards if she did not make the investment in time and money to get these birds for us.

Cant we just get along and work for the common cause

Yes, Thank you Kathy!

....and....YES.....what Bob said.

 

[NYREDS]

....and your point, other than to 'argue' is what exactly??

Heritage, not unlike "organic" is a marketing term, PERIOD. Beyond that it has NO meaning. Kathy is an excellent breeder and her point is well made.

The ideal/principle of this thread is to discuss how to breed "old" breeds to the standard as established in the SOP, nothing more, nothing less.

I think nothing less than a little respect is expected on this thread

Well said! I love these people who show up & criticize people who have actually accomplished something, which Kathy certainly has. Have to wonder what the critic has done that warrents his borderline rude comment.

 

[mschlumb]

Who told you that? I have disqualified birds for weight w/o actually weighing them when they were obviously way over or under weight. [usually under]

Here's what the Standard says: "When size & weight cannot be determined by comparison, it is advisable to require the weighing of the specimens."

Unless it is obvious i wouldn't think you could DQ, because that's just your estimate. The standard does say. . . "In any case where evidence is doubtful the bird shall be presumed to be acceptable"(p. 32) That's the reason I was thinking that if the judge was not 100% sure and had a precise weight he/she couldn't DQ based on weight as the evidence would be doubtful. As an exhibitor I might not trust their ability to feel a bird and guess weight.

 

[Chris09]

Yes, if one bird is weighed all of them need to be weighed to be fair, if my bird gets weighed and points get docked for being off weight I would want to make sure that all other birds were also weighed and points cut accordingly. And yes unmistakeable evidence has to be there in order to DQ anything for any reason, therefore a judge can't simply guess a weight. A judge can't just say "well I think this bird is 20% over/under weight" with no evidence. The question you raised is why all birds would have to be weighed if one is weighed.

You can file a complaint with the show management, if you feel you were treaed unfairly. there is a whole process for that which i will not go into detail on.
hope this answered your question

Quote: I think your missing it, If a bird is Over or Under weight by 20% there is no docking of weight, the bird is DQ'ed.



Quote: Where did you here this information?

Chris

 

[gjensen]

I am going to guess that the Delawares that Kathy has put together will have a positive impact on the breed going forward. That is a good thing. I have been impressed with what she has done. The breed will be in better shape because of her project. That is what we want. The breeds to be in better shape.

I can guess what my birds weigh and be close, but there is in no way I could go into a room of hundreds of other's birds and accurately guess weights. I think all you would have to do is weigh at a couple of the largest shows to make a correction.

I do not like the fish scales. I have and use them. I think they get you in a range. Buckets are not as good as a sack. The deflection in the handle varies. They would work fine for a dead bird.

 

[NYREDS]

Thank you Don and Dragonlady, some great ideas, will research them both....... I was thinking something more along the lines of a scale that had a flat, broad base that I could put a cardboard box on and set the chicken in it.

That's what I use. A digital postal scale with a 10 x 10 inch platform. $19.99 on EBAY including postage. Much easier than the old hanging milk house scale I used for many years. I weigh all my breeder birds & know several other breeders who do this as well.

 

[buffalogal]

If you wanted to get past that "Guys like big birds" thinking, you could set the rule that every bird that is awarded Class Champion or Reserve is to be weighed and birds out of the SoP range for their breed will not be awarded those points and would be ineligible for further competition that day. Enact such a rule at every APA show, and we'd see weights lining up with the SoP across the board within 2 years.