Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Arielle]

Quote: You can work around the lack of vit A in the corn by making up for it in another feed, or vitamin addative. It begs the question, if corn causes coloration issues in the feathering, then wouldn't greens like grass also cause the problem too??? Perhaps certain variations of the Vita A are better at preventing off coloring. is Vit A precusers v. VIt A. IDK enough to answer, only ask the question.

 

[maryhysong]

It seems to be genetic to begin with and then yellow corn/direct sun makes it worse. It is the difference between recessive white and dominent white. I had to keep my white Rock bantams in shaded areas of the yard, but my white Leghorn can be in full sun and be fed corn with the only bad effect of the corn being the earlobes turn yellow......along with the legs etc.....but the legs are a good thing, the earlobes not so good. Brassiness seems to be primarily a male chicken with recessive white genes problem. Food and environment just makes brassiness worse. This is what I have observed here.

Walt

This sounds a bit like the theory on angelwing in ducks. That it is genetic but shows up / is aggravated by a high protein diet. Correcting it by binding the wing and lowering the protein gives a bird that doesn't show the problem, but when bred, the next generation shows up with it.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: HAahaaa . . . When you first asked the question, which is a great question by the way, I thought no it is a columbian effect, not recessive and not dominate white. THanks to the mixes flock I have of hatchery mutts I am learning something about colors!! I had a rooster that started with blue eyes and was white, as he matured he added black flecks, then added red leakage and about that time I noticed his eyes had changed color, to brown. AN interesting lesson in dom white genes-- he had only 1 as I understand genes.

Glad you were able to talk yourself thru to the answer and yes, that can be exahusting !! lol

THen there is the white based on two splash genes ( homozygous) -- I hope to see that effect with my next generation of ameraucanas.

Yes, Bob is right-- start with an easy color!

 

[Robert Blosl]

On the issue of the stay white gene in white rocks I have found if you have a few chicks that come out of the egg that look like a barred rock chick these guys need to be mixed into the flock as breeders. I always cull any bird unless he or she is a snow white bird. In regards to your Colombian Rocks Scott they are half white rocks and half light Brahmas I am sure. There are still white rock blood running around in your flock. You got to pick birds that are less and less brassesy each year. Also, if you leave them out side in the direct sun all day they are going to get more exposure to the sun and this issue. Last year I feed feed with Marigold extract and my white rock bantam males had a yellow hue to their feathers after I washed them. Never saw this be for and they where conditioned in a barn for three months be for the show.

I dont give my chickens corn I give them a game bird conditioner or finisher called Game Bird Pellets from FRM in Georgia. I get a better finish on them especially my reds.

I have tried cheaper feed and the results where very bad so I have not st oped in 20 years. Heck its about the same price for corn and cheap feed as it is the good stuff.

There is a thing that Kenny Bowl es told me to watch out for and that is the sun causing sun burn on your Reds. It applies maybe also to the white birds. I would let them out about a hour or so befor sun down and then they would return to the roost and shut the door till the next day. I also let pens out for a hour or two at night then rotate to the next pen the next day. I have four 8x8 pens and two pens or runs so every other day I let one pen out for a few hours while I am home to protect them from varmints or dogs.

Glad the tread did not die should have not been so thought full.

Walt when you get to the show tell Jim Volk hello there is going to be a huge Plymouth Rock National Meet there over $1,000 in prize money raised by the exhibitors them selves that is great on their part.

 

[Bentley]

But wait, Walt. Am I not incorrect in thinking Light Sussex are white birds at all? I was just reading... Are they not Wheaten bird in which Co/Co has pushed out all the shades of brown and just left the black? Because brown is more easily pushed aside than black? I thought I was right in the last post but now....so genotype: eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co ...but Silver is not the same as White, is it?

Hum....
============
Ok, I got this figured out with some genetics help. Light Sussex are a buff Wheaten where the buff has been replaced by the Silver (instead of the Silver gene just plain hiding the buff. So the bird looks white and the black portions stay where they would have been if the bird had stayed buff in the first place.
Whew, that was exhausting.

Karen

Light Sussex carries the following genetic makeup for plumage: eb (Brown; autosomal recessive), Co (Columbian Restriction; autosomal dominant), S (Silver, sex-linked dominant).
The S gene inhibits the production of brown pigment (from the eb) but has no effect on black.

 

[catdaddyfro]

You can work around the lack of vit A in the corn by making up for it in another feed, or vitamin addative. It begs the question, if corn causes coloration issues in the feathering, then wouldn't greens like grass also cause the problem too??? Perhaps certain variations of the Vita A are better at preventing off coloring. is Vit A precusers v. VIt A. IDK enough to answer, only ask the question.

google xanthophyll:

https://www.google.com/search?q=xan...t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox

Jeff

 

[Wynette]

It was told me to me by a bantam white rock breeder a few years ago to breed the silver gene into white birds, and that's what prevented them from turning brassy in the sun. I asked him because there were probably 80 bantam white rock entries at that show, and maybe 20% of them looks bright white, his being some of them. He stated that he runs them outdoors all year long and never gets a brassy feather.

 

[Bentley]

I don't have any personal experience with this topic of a yellow corn based diet effecting the 'yellowing' in white feathered birds. I asked a leading poultry nutritionist this question this morning and he says he sees no way that the xanthophyl from the corn based diet could possibly have any effect on the pigmentation in a white feathered bird. He hasn't tested this but from his bank of knowledge on how nutrition and nutrients in poultry diets work and how pigmentation in feathers work he just cant scientifically explain how this might ever happen.

From a genetic standpoint, I am in complete agreement that genetic influences can determine how one breed or breed strain (the white in each strain MIGHT occur due to different genetic causes) can be more influenced by 'yellowing' in the feathers from exposure to direct sunlight.

Again, no practical experience in this area (other than knowing that direct sunlight can cause yellowing or brassiness in white birds, particularly males to varying degrees), just trying to lean on available scientific information for this one.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Phew! I finally caught up. I am learning so much from this thread, so thank you to everyone contributing here.

Someone asked who was working with Continentals. I multi quoted it yesterday, but it didn't show up today. (and I don't want to go back through all the pages to find it) I'm working with Welsummers and Barnevelders.

Rookies dont need to be fooling with such a hard breed. Heck us guys that have been at this for ten or twenty years will have a hard time and we should have a better chance for success. That's why I am against trying to make new colors of Cornish or Rocks or Wyandottes. So many are in trouble who have been around for 75 years or more and need help that are in the standard right now.

However, there will be one percent who think they want to make a new color for a variety. Heck we have not got the Blue Rocks into the APA standard yet . I dont think many understand how hard it is to breed a blue color its one of the hardest there is. I tip my hat off to those folks who have done well with this color pattern.

From what I've been reading, I chose some difficult breeds to work with. Ah well, just like me to make things harder on myself.

A flock of stay white Rocks still pleases me like nothing else. Just sayin'.

With our red dirt, nothing stays bright white here. My 4 year old hatchery light brahma (my first birds) looks beautifully white right now with just coming back from her molt. In a week, she'll look reddish white.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I don't have any personal experience with this topic of a yellow corn based diet effecting the 'yellowing' in white feathered birds. I asked a leading poultry nutritionist this question this morning and he says he sees no way that the xanthophyl from the corn based diet could possibly have any effect on the pigmentation in a white feathered bird. He hasn't tested this but from his bank of knowledge on how nutrition and nutrients in poultry diets work and how pigmentation in feathers work he just cant scientifically explain how this might ever happen.

From a genetic standpoint, I am in complete agreement that genetic influences can determine how one breed or breed strain (the white in each strain MIGHT occur due to different genetic causes) can be more influenced by 'yellowing' in the feathers from exposure to direct sunlight.

Again, no practical experience in this area (other than knowing that direct sunlight can cause yellowing or brassiness in white birds, particularly males to varying degrees), just trying to lean on available scientific information for this one.

The article that I posted written by Brian Reeder explains well the effect (especially with birds carrying Columbian) the genetic effect that causes brassiness...apparently (in laymens terms) there can be a missing "inhibitor" of gold