Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Yellow House Farm]

Hmmm......well, then there's the argument that the long back makes it a much better production fowl, more farm worthy. I have to say that I'm definitely a fan of our Orps over their Orps. Whenever I see a British Orp, all I see is a clean-legged Cochin. I generally think that cushion is a bad thing for a fowl. It speaks to lethargy and instantly causes me to question growth and vigor. Poofy Rocks, Orps, Wyandottes? No thank you. Consider the Cochin. It's nothing now. It will persist as long as there are folks to AI them and appreciate them in the yard like an ornament. In the on-line rag: Exhibition Poultry, there was a great article maybe a year ago on a breeder of White Orps from the South, and the photos were stunning. I hope we can get back to seeing Orps like that. I fear that good Orps are slipping away.

 

[Wisher1000]

Great info, keep it coming!

 

[aveca]

There is nothing more breathtaking than a great american standard orp...I keep both brits and US standards..I keep the US standards , well, because they are an amazing handsome birds when they are well done..

.heres the thing..that big blk orp that was unusually long that I was given was no better egg layer than the shorter backed counter parts..and it was when I crossed them that the egg laying picked up a little bit but nothing to brag about.about every 2 days they laid an egg..so that might be a fable, you cant base that on one example..but blk orp historically are not known for thier production abilities..maybe the inbreeding , Im not sure..but even in the beginning they were not a great egg layer, long or short..just my experience with her..the neighbors that had the rest of that group of long backed hens got rid of them..wernt happy with them laying an egg every 3 days or so..they came from a big farm that closed a while ago in midwest..

I saw a good use for the long hen, she had that classic face..and expressive eye , lack of white lobe that plagues a lot of US blk orps, superb neck feathers that has been a strong trait, no pipe cleaner necks even on the young ones....so I kind of wished I would have picked up a few more of them from the neighbors befor they went down to a sale in VA..but just working her into the program was a good thing. had to work on taking some of that length back out..brought tail angle back to good..

.I dont cross the brits and the US birds on Walts advise and I enjoy both kinds..My only complaint about that long hen was the length made her tail angle drop too low even below both standards..the tail should be when viewd from the side near head height..hers was flat and even low most times..and the birds with a little more cusion hold up a lot better under the weight of the big males, the less cusion the backs were stripped..When I get my new camera, I will take pics of that..just personal experience with a small flock..

I just dont beleive in changing somones creation for my meger needs..I honor the creator and when thier vision was weather RIR or Orp..

American standard blk orp


German - Brit cross import white orp bred more to both standards out in a day pen that was battered by a storm..

 

[thedragonlady]

Hmmm......well, then there's the argument that the long back makes it a much better production fowl, more farm worthy. I have to say that I'm definitely a fan of our Orps over their Orps. Whenever I see a British Orp, all I see is a clean-legged Cochin. I generally think that cushion is a bad thing for a fowl. It speaks to lethargy and instantly causes me to question growth and vigor. Poofy Rocks, Orps, Wyandottes? No thank you. Consider the Cochin. It's nothing now. It will persist as long as there are folks to AI them and appreciate them in the yard like an ornament. In the on-line rag: Exhibition Poultry, there was a great article maybe a year ago on a breeder of White Orps from the South, and the photos were stunning. I hope we can get back to seeing Orps like that. I fear that good Orps are slipping away.

The extreme Cochin type Orp does NOT fit the British standard either. The best Orps are now being bred in Europe and Russia. Those do fit the standard. The overdone Cochin look is just a fad , and a testament to the owner's conditioning. The good birds from Europe have main tail feathers, and their skirts do not trail on the ground. Much less cushion on these birds too , just enough to weather proof them from the cold, wet climate.

 

[fowlman01]

Hmmm......well, then there's the argument that the long back makes it a much better production fowl, more farm worthy. I have to say that I'm definitely a fan of our Orps over their Orps. Whenever I see a British Orp, all I see is a clean-legged Cochin. I generally think that cushion is a bad thing for a fowl. It speaks to lethargy and instantly causes me to question growth and vigor. Poofy Rocks, Orps, Wyandottes? No thank you. Consider the Cochin. It's nothing now. It will persist as long as there are folks to AI them and appreciate them in the yard like an ornament. In the on-line rag: Exhibition Poultry, there was a great article maybe a year ago on a breeder of White Orps from the South, and the photos were stunning. I hope we can get back to seeing Orps like that. I fear that good Orps are slipping away.

As you know...there is a lot of misinformation online. The British Standard is not very different than the US Standard for Orps. They have a smaller head and allow more fluff...that's it! I don't know where thisOrps sre like Plymouth Rocks here business is coming from and it never comes with documentation. If you say it online it is supposed to be true for some reason. The British judges are picking these Cochin looking birds and that does not agree with the Brit Standard as they specifically say that they should not look like Cochins. I'm not sure why some folks are saying the Orps here are that different as the two descriptions are almost identical. Our judges are doing a better job of picking the ones that look like the British Standard and the APA Standard.

In addition the Europeans take all kinds of liberties with our American breeds......hahahaha The British have clean legged Marans and the originating country ....and the US calls for feather legged birds. It's just the way it is.....ya have to go by the Standard of the country you live in or move.

I don't see anyone supporting the little head the Brits want in Orps. It Seems to be a pick and chose deal.

Walt

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Standard-bred Plymouth Rocks, barred, white, buff, silver penciled ... edited by William Charles Denny 1911
The Plymouth Rock standard and breed book: a complete description of all By American Poultry Association, Arthur Carlton Smith 1921
My question about whether breeding for length and depth of body could reduce the cushion on the female's back came from the 1911 book.

 

[Robert Blosl]

YOU got to remember back then in the 1920 the barred rocks and white rocks are nothing in my view that wee have today. You can not take every thing to the bank on what they wrote with what they had to work with. It was not till the 1930 that rocks and reds made the big turn for type and color. It was really in the 1940s and 50s when they where getting birds in the 95 point range. We have gone up and down over the years but we are holding our own with some strains today and if we can teach people how to become breeders and use the standard of perfection in five to ten years we will be in good stable shape Some breeds of large fowl are in the gutter. So far down its almost impossible to bring back up to 93 to 94 points. That's why its important to pick a color that has a chance and not look at the pictures of a perfect bird then order some eggs or chicks and raise them up and be super disappointed.

To get rid of cushions you got to get rid of the traits or blood that produces them. That's the Asiatic blood. Putting intense breeding pressure on these areas will bring them back in about five years.

Then you will have the classic Java or Rock look yu wont. If you have these faults and can not get them out of your line there is nothing wrong in getting new stock from a breeder who does not have it and abort what you started with and move on with his line. Most people want to cross the correct type rocks or Javas or what ever onto their contaminated line and then you still have the faults plus more.

It took me three years to go from 20% hatchability in my white rocks to about 50 % then five years to get to 80%. The fluff in the vent the cushions just went away and the tails did not run down or became bunny tailed. Most people give up and will not do this and that is why we get into these messes. Once you get it where you want it then you still got to work on length of body and extended keels or you can revert back to what you once had.

 

[aveca]

i have found that even with brit birds, i only have to check for little blockage around male vent ..fertility was 100% .with 1 hen..the other rejected him...when females are receptive like sarah said..you know about it..the only fertility problem ive ever had was a rooster that got sick at a show.. took him till the following year to produce chicks..and one hen that was rejecting the rooster..had a vet come and see what was going on..she was expelling sperm , didnt want any part of the whole thing but th following year she settled into the idea..i had no idea hens could do that..vet said the rooster is always the blame for fertility issues..but hens absolutly reject a rooster when they want to..there is a link below..


http://www.livescience.com/15828-chickens-eject-sperm.html

 

[NanaKat]

Little Nana, where did your stock originate?  Has anyone seen, or maybe have pictures, of Resse's Columbian Wyandottes?  He mentioned having developed a strain, but I've not seen any photos.

I purchased my breeders from CJarvis (BYC member). He had worked with them for several years after purchasing his strain from a long time Oklahoma breeder who had bred and shown his strain for many years. This original gentleman has been gone for a long time and the name has eluded CJarvis. I've had them three years.

 

[desertmarcy]

A. I feed my dog raw, so we always have meat bits laying about, I've been chopping up liver and whatnot every couple of days for the cockerel and the youngens. We're also starting a mealworm and BSFly colony. We're fermenting, too, which is supposed to help a little. Not like that game feed Pathfinders posted, tho! 'course, dog food can be about 30% also, but wouldn't recommend lots of that!
So how long to harvest on HNH? (BTW in case I haven't been clear I don't expect 6wk harvest times, just trying to minimize the neighborhood hate on the cockerels. LOL I push the limits as much as I can, but there IS a point where the Sheriff will knock on your door.) So is a Cornish Rock actually a Cornish/P.Rock cross, or is that another of those specially bred icky picky things I'm really trying to avoid? What about a Cornish/HNH or C/HRIR or , or... Has anyone even tried in the last 100 years? but I'm not going to caponize. I've watched some videos, etc, and I just know I'll yank out a piece of intestine instead or something. First Aid I can do... minor repair work, wound care. Surgery? Not so much. My hands just aren't steady enough and any little thing will distract me. Dual purpose is good. Part of why I'm excited about the HRIR project I'm trying to work on, but a once a year meat harvest wouldn't be a bad side project, either. And if, by happenstance, I get to help with another breed, well, gee whillikers, what luck! Just trying to get the maximum I can out of my tiny little .25 acre! I'd have one of those cute little mini cows, too, but I can't convince the neighborhood to 'graze share'. Sigh. Who'd think that letting a couple cow pies drop on your lawn would be a negative when you'd get 2-3 gal fresh milk once a week?

Sorry I know this was posted 2 weeks ago, but I'm really behind on this thread. The Good Shepard Barred Rocks make an excellent meat bird without the crowing. They mature slowly but get nice and big and mine did not start to crow until they were at least 6 months old and by that time, they were plenty big to butcher. Heck, I butchered a 4-month old not too long ago and he dressed out at over 4 pounds.