Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Chickielady]

Quote:
And so the breed "Buckeyes " were born in the US of A !!!
THAT is a heritage heirloom TO ME!!!
But no misunderstanding that the red breasted game WAS here at the time, it was NOT created here.

It was brought here from another culture/country/ continent, regardless of the year.
WE United States citizens cannot claim that bird as 'ours', another culture of ancient peoples "created" that bird. And too bad it has not survived ?
Or does anyone have any ?

People dont know if they have it because we dont know what kind of game it was, it could have been an OEG, an Aseel, or some others.

will we ever know ?
None the less, we do have the beautiful birds she created here, a true United States of American Breed, born no where else !
Ok, goodnight all ~~and am still searching for good Delaware hatching eggs for a friend....

 

[Chickielady]

Quote:
And so the breed "Buckeyes " were born in the US of A !!!
THAT is a heritage heirloom TO ME!!!
But no misunderstanding that the red breasted game WAS here at the time, it was NOT created here.

It was brought here from another culture/country/ continent, regardless of the year.
WE United States citizens cannot claim that bird as 'ours', another culture of ancient peoples "created" that bird. And too bad it has not survived ?
Or does anyone have any ?

People dont know if they have it because we dont know what kind of game it was, it could have been an OEG, an Aseel, or some others.

I bet I know exactly what she told them when they asked her

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Nettie Metcalf referred to it as an Indian Game, but not Cornish. She wanted a Cornish look to her bird, but did not want to use a Cornish. On the Buckeye forums it has been discussed that the Indian Game may have been the now extinct Red Malay. We may never know.

 

[silkieluver_07]

Got home from the PA Farm Show today and on Champion Row was the following:

Champion American- New Hampshire Hen
Champion Asiatic- Black Langshan Pullet
Champion English- Black Orpington Hen
Champion Continental- Black Lafleche Cock/Cockerel
Champion Meditteranean- SC Light Brown Leghorn Hen
Champion AOSB- Black Sumatra Hen/Pullet

I'll take pics tomorrow, the New Hampshire was very nice! The leghorn got Grand Champion Large Fowl

(My boyfriends bird!)

 

[Jared77]

Congratulations on the win thats great!

 

[Jared77]

Sorry didn't have the heart to post a congratulations then a question in the same post.

saladin wrote:

That is a good question. I'm not sure I have the correct answer. I'll give one, but understand it may not be the best one.

If I could only keep say 20 chickens.

I'd hatch at least 100 chicks. Replace half of my breeders every year with the 10 best chicks: cull the rest.

Every 4 or 5 years, maybe less, I'd obtain a new cock of the breed I'm raising from a good breeder: that would help to avoid degeneration.

Here's my question being a small time chicken person and one thats kept bothering me about this......if your looking to get a new cock bird every so often, how does one go about finding one thats not from the same lines that they bought their original stock from? For example lets take the Colombian Rock. Now if there are only a couple of breeders working with this color how do I go about replacing a cock bird every so often to diversify my limited gene pool? Do I go back to the original breeder and get another roo thats closely related to the birds Ive already got and need to diversify from? Its tough enough as it is to find quality birds let alone an unrelated or loosely related birds to help diversify your limited gene pool so your not breeding yourself further into the corner your trying to get out of.

Or do I go track down another real nice quality bird but in a different color so I'm not losing type just color? Then work to get that color back? If its a simple recessive color it would be easy to get back within a 2 generations. Or maybe you produce sex linked chicks if you were say a Delaware breeder and introduced a NH or even a RIR (from what Ive read about the Delaware both are ok pairings is this true?) then culled by down coloration. Getting back to the cull from the brooder ability so your not raising chicks that you don't really need to raise to know they are not what you ultimately want.

I guess I'm trying to understand what the options are for those of us who are limited in our resources and can only be small time but still want to get quality and continue to develop as potential breeders. Am I hitting on something here or way off the reservation on this?​

 

[Robert Blosl]

Boy this is a good group of questions I am so happy you asked them.
I have a new friend who wants Columbian Plymouth Rock Large Fowl from Minn. He does not want to show them but wants to try and improve them if he can. I have a good friend named Yard Full of Rocks who has two strains of Columbian Plymouth Rocks. He has a strain from the mid west that is not to bad trying very hard to look like a Columbian Plymouth Rock in Color and Type. Good birds however.

He also has the new Strain from Canada that look so much nicer for color and type.

Lets say my friend gets ten started chicks from Yard Full of Rocks. He then culls down to two males and three females. He then puts the three females in a 4x4 pen and each female has room in her pen to eat and lay her eggs. He rotates the male to each pen every day then on the fourth day he lets him stay in his own 4x4 pen to eat and recharge himself. Then he is rotated back again to pen one pen two and pen three every other day. Each egg is marked pen one pen two and pen three. Each chick is hatched in baskets made from wire cages in the incubator and toe punched to the pen they come out of. Then my friend lets the male rest from the females for say 8 days then puts the second male in the females pens just like I described before. This then would be pen four , five and six chicks coming from this mating. He raises the chicks up and looks to see which hen or male produces the best chicks from these pedigree matings.

Then the second year he does this all over again keeps the most vigorous birds and puts together another line breeding program which we will not go into at this moment. Let’s say he goes to five or seven years everything is going well the birds improve each year for type and color, but he wants new or fresh blood for new vigor. . Does he go to some strange breeder for a new male? No Should he order eggs from a stranger in California who has this color pattern. No ? Should he cross them on to say a nice White Rock Large fowl Male? No

Most likely they would turn into Barred Rocks. He would not go to a total stranger in California because he would introduce to his closed strain outside blood and the genes would clash.

What he needs to do is go back to Yard Full of Rocks and get two dozen eggs or ten started chicks or meet him at a chicken show and swap out a male or a female and then cross these birds back into his strain in Minnesota. Or he could have a male or female brought in to the Ohio National Show from Canada from the Original Breeder like we did this year for Yard Full of Rocks.

I think the secret is to NETWORK with each other that you can trust a breed and strain of birds. Keep the gene pool closed only between the breeders of the original strain coming out of Canada or whoever you get your start from . I have two friends who have Art Lundgen Gray Calls. We swap birds with each other to get new blood. One fellow lives in Oregon and one lives in Arkansas. We can rotate birds with each other for 20 years and never destroy our gene pool that we are working on. Does this make Sense?

In getting started with Delaware’s. You can get a start from a person who has a good strain and then try to breed them up for type and color. If you ever need new blood you can go back to her and get more birds, swap birds with her at a shows or get birds from a customer that she sold eggs to a few years ago. Always try to stay with the strain you got your start from. Don’t mix strains of any breed as when you do you stir up a hornets’ nest with the germ plasma or the gene pool of this strain.
Don’t out cross to a White or a Buff gird to get new blood. Stay with what you have.
Here is another idea.

Start your own strain of Delaware’s by Crossing a great Barred Rock male onto two super good New Hampshire Females. You will get maybe two chicks out of ten that will have the color of the Delaware. Then start a line breeding program at your home with what you have that looks as close to the Delaware standard. Share these birds with others within the Delaware Club. Build a closed gene pool over ten or twenty years you will have Delaware’s that all will be happy with and the stain will go on for years and years to come.
I have found to have small matings of pairs or trios. Have two or three pairs or trios per breed. Toe punch and even better wing band your little chicks. Learn who produces the best off spring. Breed from the best and cull the rest. That is the secret.

I do this with my White rock bantams only two pairs been breeding this line for 8 years. I have Rhode Island Red Bantams I have breed them for 23 years and only have three small families. However, I have two partners who have my line and I can get birds from them whenever I need them. I have three pairs of Gray Call ducks. Line Breeding them each year for five years.

I have a strain of old white leghorn bantams that go back 60 years. Have two males and four females.

My old line of Bill Bowman Buff Bahamas I have two trios. The list goes on. Small numbers two trios and hatch about 50 to 60 chicks from the best females and males per breed. Each year hope you go up a half a point or so and they look better every three to five years. Need new blood go back to who you got them from or a person who has your strain. I hope I painted the picture for you.

If I was going to get Dark Cornish I would have two pair from a killer breeder from say North Louisiana . When I needed new blood I would go back to him or folks he shared his birds with and get a new bird to introduce to my flock. Never buy from a different strain because you will destroy his years of work in line breeding.

Well I am out of gas. Got to take my cold pills and go to bed. Great Great questions. Keep them coming. What I have said will work with Buff Leghorns, Java’s, Rhode Island Whites and Buckeyes. I don’t know the lady who invented the Buckeyes or what she used to get them to the Standard. I only know one thing If I had them I would breed them to the Standard of Perfection and I would get with the super stars that raise them today in the USA. There are many great breeders out there that have them and are willing to teach you. Will edit in the am. Wish I had a spell checker on this thread. bob

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Bob, download the Google Toolbar. It comes with a spell checker and will spell check every site I am on but showbirdbid. That is because they have their own spell check. Most of my poor spelling comes from my fat fingers on the laptop.

Wonderful info.

Bob, am in need of a Buff Plymouth Rock LF male. Have any friends in the SE Arkansas region that could help? It could be a show cull. Just want the color and feather quality for my Buff Chantecler program. Currently am following Dan H. suggestions and using a Buckeye male. Want to breed those pullets back to the Buff Rock. Also want to mate the Buff Rock to the Buff Chanteclers this season. Your suggestions on the line breeding is most helpful. That is exactly what we have to do to improve the Buff Chantecler. The original Albertan stock is gone (we think) and Walter's re-creation is a bit small. Color is good, just size is not up to the Chantecler Standard.

I did a test mating this year on the Buckeye X Buff cross. heritagehabitatfarm took some of them this summer. Made great dumplins! We own one production/hatchery bird, a Buff Orpington hen. She lays really good. Kids call her Penny. We have two more chicks from her in the brooder house. These I am looking very close at on the color. So far no black tails. Just a rich, orange. They will make good dumplins.

Anyway, check out the Google Toolbar.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

Quote:
i raised 3 of the Buckeye X Buff cross... all roosters... they where colored like a production RIR instead of the dark red of the Buckeye... how many generation would it take to get a buff bird back out of a cross like this???

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Great post! as always!