Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[halo]

Quote:

This post is worth reading over and over and over.

 

[centrarchid]

Fowlman1,

Crude graph shows relationship between age (weeks) and weight (g) for three birds. One grows to slow, another two fast for heritage and another that reaches the hypothetical ideal harvest weight of about 2000 g at 16 weeks post hatch. All three birds could have similar weight at age of first showing. I want birds selected in part based upon the growth curve. Most important point isat 16 weeks when labor is too intensive to measure so many birds.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I agree wholeheartedly that the SOP is written to insure productive quality. It is, indeed, so much of its birthright. I also concede that regionally poultry culture is variable. I have never heard anyone talk production at the North East shows I have attended. I am under the impression that elsewhere poultry culture may be more balanced.


Still, and to the point, the recommendation of out-crossing to a Brahma? Even if this CA Breeder has Brahmas that mature in 1 year, that is still far past the ideal for a Plymouth Rock, and I stand by the assertion that a Plymouth Brahma cross is a cross, just like a Cornish X.

Walt, it is wonderful to read of your production consciousness with regards to your Orpingtons, and I'm certain there are many more who are conscious. Further, I have never been to poultry shows outside the North East, so I can also not speak to the culture outside of this region. That being said, I consistently talk with breeders about production characteristics at our region's shows, and I've yet to find one individual that feels convicted as to their importance as a primary attribute, which makes me suspicious of show poultry. I often hear parroted dismissal of hatchery stock, and I will concede that I have never raised hatchery stock that compared to our White Dorkings or to many of the birds I see at show in terms of finess and beauty. However, they are often extremely thrifty and productive. I played with some hatchery White Orpingtons for a couple of seasons, and they were excellent birds. They may not have hit all of the fancy points required in the SOP, but they certainly attained to the Economic Qualities in the SOP.

It is true that one cannot perhaps know how many eggs are laid by a specific bird, but as you mentioned one can look for indicators of production. One can also avoid crossing them out to other breeds for the fast-track acquisition of fancy points.

It would be interesting, in the development of list of breeders, to find out how many breeders actually prioritize production qualities in their stock. I know of some very pretty RIRs that don't start laying until 8 months. That's not OK. That's a solid two months overdo, two months of feed without return. In short, one cannot say to a beginning small-scale farmer that he should consider such a strain, for to do so would be an injustice. It is for this that I believe that all discussions of Heritage LF should hold productivity up as an important point of consideration. When Reese says that the way to save these fowl is to return them to our table, he is quite aware that the road to that place is one of breeding for Standard-bred production.

It would seem that any outcrossing would be well considered and done with judicious care. Indeed, some breeds may be so far gone (read Crevecoeurs and Redcaps) that the only way to reclaim them may be via a process of out-crossing and then grading back. However, to outcross a Rock to a Brahma for a color point is stretching it rather far.

 

[centrarchid]

Yellow House Farm,

I am trying to do what you are emplicating is best. One breed, production weighed heavily. Proving to be a great deal more work. Needs to be optimized. Tracking who laid which eggs is a challenge without stresing birds and reducing egg production.

I use family selection which requires tracking lifetime performance of individuals and their kin. Lots of work (major understatement). May actually require using a computer to calculate which individuals will be best broodstock. Getting birds judged on that would be sweet but requires greater honesty if to be competitive.

 

[Wynette]

Yellow House - I read your posts with such great interest! Thank you!

It was not a color point that it was recommended to me for - it was to increase the size of the bird. It sounded ludicrous to me at the time, and I dismissed it and am not planning to use any Brahma with my silver penciled rocks. I just found it interesting that someone suggested the same to Scott (Yard Full O' Rocks) for his Columbian Rocks, and got to wondering if maybe there was more to it and perhaps I should reconsider. I am on the fence.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Centrachid, where did you find this chart? It is nice. are there others like it, stressing other growth factors?

 

[cherylcohen]

Quote:
Cheryl,

If that is a solid black feather in the wing of that female in the foreground.....you need to make it go away before the Stockton show.

Walt

WHEW, just went out and checked the girls, that was a shadow and here is another angle same bird. I pulled out the SOP and they are identical to the below standard....whew...had me scarred

Female - Wings
Fronts, Bows & Coverts --steel gray with distinct black pencilings.
Primaries -- black with steel gray diagonal pencilings on lower webs
Secondaries -- lower webs, steel gray with black pencilings, extending well around tips of feather;balance of upper webs, black

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Wow, Centrachid! What's your breed of focus? Dominiques? And, yes, I know the work involved. We are in our sixth year of breeding the White Dorkings and using them commercially in our regional farmers markets. It has been one heck of an adventure and a ton of effort. However, every drip of old literature I've read leads to this path. All of our greats: Dorkings, Houdans, Wyandottes, Rocks, RIR, NH, Orps, Brahmas, Giants, Minorcas, Leghorns, they captured the imagination of the masses by being productive art. By being productive, they were deemed worthy of the common man; as art, they brought joy to a life of effort.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
Centrachid, where did you find this chart? It is nice. are there others like it, stressing other growth factors?

I made using Power Point in about 10 minutes, hence crude. Data presented hypothetical but likely repressentive of reality when looking at growth curves of many breeds, sometimes even within a breed. Some of my dominiques grow to fast, some way to slow which motivates my efforts. Those growing too fast do not mesh well with Heritage Breed requirments but also do not fair well in my free range setting for some reason, easpically when feed is not high end. Too slow and not worth effort as meat birds.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Hi Wynette, it seems to me that you first want to figure out the breeding tendencies of your Rocks. The only way to do that is going to be to breed in number. Check out the ALBC program, and consider hatching heavy and then culling heavy at that eight week point. Follow your weight gains. So may find that with a little bit of pressure over so many years the weight of your flock will increase. Remember to watch for weight in your growing females. It is generally accepted that it is through them that the trait is anchored into your flock.