Botulism I'm dreading

[ChiefSuperFly]

LONG POST / REALLY NEED HELP ON HOW TO COVER POSSIBLE BOTULISM IN DIRT
And I can't spray it off (gravel) and I need it to be affordable but the best solution!


Our coop is seperated into 4 roosting rooms with feed and water all with a connecting run plus I have a main feed room I keep my diddles in. The coop is fairly old but I've confirmed no lead paint. Floors are wood and I use a deep straw litter method. The runs are dirt with a tad of wood chips/natural mulch. Most of the mulch has gone to the earth. I've got 2 breeds of chickens, one guinea area and one mix breed area for eggs solely.

The mix breed are pretty hardy-a brahma, an Orpington, leghorn, a who-knows-what, an austlorp . They are my "oldest chickens" between 1-3years. Their run has a fair amount of wood chips still down.

Guineas have good greenery growing in their lot.

RIRs have mostly decomposed wood chips and dirt. They are tough and survived my mean a** guineas until I got them a lot of their own.

My ameraucanas.. their lot is furthest away from the creek. And I listed the 4 lots from closest to furthest. Mainly dirt with some decomposed wood chips. I seem to have a hard time with them. They are staying alive but they don't seem as happy as my others. No one has access to the creek unless it's their turn to free range. In late spring/early summer my mature hen was digging up and eating something. Well we had rats under the coop floors and we poisoned them all. Kept the poison away from the birds and managed to kill all the rats. These rats made tunnels under the coop and dirt of the runs and my hen dug up a decomposing rat with a belly full of poison. She was having a feast! I got her away and removed all the poison / rat. No symptoms with her.

Haven't found anymore rat bodies and it's been a good while so I'm happy about that but this little flock is getting into something! I've read that botulism isn't really something to worry about but I also read it can be in the ground.

***The ameraucanas, RIRs and guinea lots used to be a very large dog lot for our farm dog. He used the bathroom in it and would get to "free range" about like chickens. We would scoop out the poo and add fresh wood chips to the lot. Plus now I got the thought of fully decomposed poisoned rats up under the soil..

Open to all ideas/ opinions on what's going on. I feel like the guineas which are super hardy and the reds are smarter with what they eat or picky at least. Yeah I know my ameraucana hen was eating rat poison and survived so I'll give her that but my 18week olds act poisoned if I don't let them out every day.

 

[azygous]

First of all, botulism spores are present in the soil and do not turn into a toxin until anaerobic conditions are present. That means as long as the soil is turned over and oxygen is present in the soil particles, no toxin can grow.

The rat poison is the culprit I would look at first. Cyanide is deadly to all organisms in the right amount. It's the last thing a flock keeper should use around their chickens. Rats are dreadful, but poison is a worse threat.

Have you had any chickens with symptoms other than "not being happy"? If so, please describe them. Poisoning produces specific symptoms.

The rat poison isn't the only source of poisoning. It could come from moldy feed, poison mushrooms, and machinery leaking fluids onto the soil.

 

[Poultrybonkers]

Unless they are drinking stagnate water or water with dead fish in it its not botulism and if you live near a creek the waters constantly moving so it wouldnt get stagnate do you have a garden? With tomatoe plants or potatoe plants that they might be getting into?

 

[casportpony]

Unless they are drinking stagnate water or water with dead fish in it its not botulism and if you live near a creek the waters constantly moving so it wouldnt get stagnate do you have a garden? With tomatoe plants or potatoe plants that they might be getting into?

Did you know that the UC Davis CAHFS lab recently reported that some chickens died from botulism that they got from a compost pile?

 

[Poultrybonkers]

Did you know that the UC Davis CAHFS lab recently reported that some chickens died from botulism that they got from a compost pile?

My guess is that there compost pile had standing water in it with rotting fish...lol actually I thought it had to do with nasty water I dont have a compost pile but had ducks die from it few years ago from duckweed I got at the lake so never did that again

 

[casportpony]

My guess is that there compost pile had standing water in it with rotting fish...lol actually I thought it had to do with nasty water I dont have a compost pile but had ducks die from it few years ago from duckweed I got at the lake so never did that again

@Poultrybonkers Unlikely that the pile had standing water. Case was in October of last year when California was still in a drought.

 

[gilbert2]

This is one of the most interesting threads I have read! Thank you all for teaching me about stagnant water, etc.

 

[barred2rock]

My guess is that there compost pile had standing water in it with rotting fish...lol actually I thought it had to do with nasty water I dont have a compost pile but had ducks die from it few years ago from duckweed I got at the lake so never did that again

More likely standing unturned anaerobic compost.

 

[azygous]

I've had problems with a hen getting sick from a compost pile. She's a Cream Legbar and excavates to the bitter bottom. In spring, after a wet winter and neglect of my compost pile, it had become slimy and very wet at the bottom. The clue is a "swamp" odor, much like the one coming out of all branches of US government, putrid and rank.

I managed to catch her resulting illness very early, and she recovered with amoxicillin. I've since improved drainage and watch it carefully. The problem is not with drinking the bad water so much as with eating the invertebrates living on the putrid mass.

 

[Akrnaf2]

Did you know that the UC Davis CAHFS lab recently reported that some chickens died from botulism that they got from a compost pile?

Read this article that I have written about the connection of compost and Botulism.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-compost-heap-benefit-or-harm-to-chickens.68151/