Brown Chinese X White Chinese Goslings?

[proudduckowner22]

Hi. I am wondering what would the goslings be like from a pure brown female Chinese goose, bred to a pure white Chinese gander? Would they be splash coloured offspring? I have never bred white Chinese geese to brown Chinese geese so I have some questions on this. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[JRies]

Hi. I am wondering what would the goslings be like from a pure brown female Chinese goose, bred to a pure white Chinese gander? Would they be splash coloured offspring? I have never bred white Chinese geese to brown Chinese geese so I have some questions on this. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

If there both pure color (not split in the recent past) you should end up with splits. If you get a white it will have a splash of brown if you get a brown it will have a splash of white. This can carry on for a few generations when you breed back to get the coloring pure again. There refereed to as color genetic splits. Caring both colors.

 

[Jaxall]

White gander brown goose

 

[NatJ]

If there both pure color (not split in the recent past) you should end up with splits. If you get a white it will have a splash of brown if you get a brown it will have a splash of white. This can carry on for a few generations when you breed back to get the coloring pure again. There refereed to as color genetic splits. Caring both colors.

Have you tried this? Or do you have a source for this information?
I'd like to learn more about it, and I am not having any luck finding it.

The only thing I've found so far is a paper from 1953, about some goslings that were a cross of Embden and White Chinese.

The paper is called "Color Inheritance in Geese and Its Application to Goose Breeding."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119515632

Despite both parents being white, those goslings were colored. The males & females were different colors (so a sex-linked cross), and the males grew up to be white or almost white, while the females grew up to have plenty of color on them.
I think this means that the sex-linked genes causing white in Embden geese were passed down from the Embden mothers, showing only in the males. And the White Chinese gander must have had some recessive gene, that was making him white (recessive because his goslings were not made white by it.)

I've also read that Embdens can be sexed by down color, even though they all grow up white, while White Chinese cannot. This would also indicate different genes in those two white breeds.

But although I can find more information about the white in Embden geese, I have not been able to find ANY more info about the gene(s) that cause white in Chinese geese

 

[telandra2]

I have a craigslist brown gander that is supposed to be from the hatchery, and a craigslist heritage unknown brown African goose with a white chest (pictured in a previous crossbreed thread.) They had 5 ganderlings and 1 girl. 1 boy had a white patch just like mom.1 slightly smaller white patch than mom's. The girl is tiny, not African sized, and has white freckles around her bill. A few had slightly lighter tan necks as well. Otherwise they looked like the other Africans.

 

[JRies]

Have you tried this? Or do you have a source for this information?
I'd like to learn more about it, and I am not having any luck finding it.

The only thing I've found so far is a paper from 1953, about some goslings that were a cross of Embden and White Chinese.

The paper is called "Color Inheritance in Geese and Its Application to Goose Breeding."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119515632

Despite both parents being white, those goslings were colored. The males & females were different colors (so a sex-linked cross), and the males grew up to be white or almost white, while the females grew up to have plenty of color on them.
I think this means that the sex-linked genes causing white in Embden geese were passed down from the Embden mothers, showing only in the males. And the White Chinese gander must have had some recessive gene, that was making him white (recessive because his goslings were not made white by it.)

I've also read that Embdens can be sexed by down color, even though they all grow up white, while White Chinese cannot. This would also indicate different genes in those two white breeds.

But although I can find more information about the white in Embden geese, I have not been able to find ANY more info about the gene(s) that cause white in Chinese geese

This is what I have learned so far, White is not sex linked it is its own color genetic. Brown is not sex linked it is its own color genetic.
By breeding the 2 colors together you get both boys and girls that carry both genetic colors. You also get babies that throw both traits. Brown on white and white on brown.
This is your first generation and called a split (color genetics)(not breed).
Splits have the ability to throw both colors probably with color imperfections (my white Africans 2 still have black (brown) feathers. But they have other imperfections like not high quality show stock. Getting high quality whites like they have in other country's cant take time and generations. There are a few breeders working on it.
Im still working on it but have a long way to go.
So the imperfections in there color can show up for a few generations. Brown with white white with brown. It dosent mean you are not raising purebred geese your just raising splits (color genetics not breed genetics) one or 2 generations can bring them back to there true color.
People breed out for lots of reasons in poultry. Also Waterfowl. Unlike any other registry your birds are proven by the way they show in the APA. So breeding out is normal.
Maybe the bird you are raising is to closely related to many brothers to sisters. After all your dealing with eggs and the fertility just isn't there anymore. So you take a close related bird and introduce it to your flock, Then breed it back in for a few generations.
Color breeding isnt much different.
Keep in mind Im talking about true African dewlap geese as you read this .
We have ok white Africans in the US we have incredible Browns. By breeding the whites back to the browns. We get a better quality split color (total imperfections in color). Then by breeding them back to the whites we get a chance at a good quality show bird (who will still have imperfections). Hopefuly by the 3rd or forth generation you can breed it out.
This may all seem a little crazy but its about leaving the world a little better. The birds a little healthy and allot more generations....Of goosy love....
So we talk sex linked its completely different. There are only 2 colors I know of that are sex linked in geese its buff. So far all my babies from a pure buff boy to a pure brown girl have been. All boys brown all girls buff. But that only works when both colors are pure not split.
Sorry not the pest explainer. Hope that helped

 

[JRies]

Have you tried this? Or do you have a source for this information?
I'd like to learn more about it, and I am not having any luck finding it.

The only thing I've found so far is a paper from 1953, about some goslings that were a cross of Embden and White Chinese.

The paper is called "Color Inheritance in Geese and Its Application to Goose Breeding."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119515632

Despite both parents being white, those goslings were colored. The males & females were different colors (so a sex-linked cross), and the males grew up to be white or almost white, while the females grew up to have plenty of color on them.
I think this means that the sex-linked genes causing white in Embden geese were passed down from the Embden mothers, showing only in the males. And the White Chinese gander must have had some recessive gene, that was making him white (recessive because his goslings were not made white by it.)

I've also read that Embdens can be sexed by down color, even though they all grow up white, while White Chinese cannot. This would also indicate different genes in those two white breeds.

But although I can find more information about the white in Embden geese, I have not been able to find ANY more info about the gene(s) that cause white in Chinese geese

Thought i would add this if it helps. Color genetics is not a simple as one color to the other but playing with the duck color calculator I will put a link at the bottom will give you a idea.
Geese colors are a little less complicated but the duck one is easier to understand. There is a goose calculator but you really have to work it I will put that in also.
Put in white Male under choose color Put in Buff (orpington, light as the female.)
Hit Calculate choose continue with this female. and calculate,
Yes you will get white but read the genetic combinations its what they are everyone is caring a different genetic code and it takes 16 babies to get thous combinations. 8 of the 16 will be white but there code is different. A few generations of breeding back to white will simplify the code back to M+M+ Li+Li+ e+e+ bl+bl+ cc B+B+ r+r+ D+D+ Bu+Bu+ which is a pure white duck. Here is the calculator https://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingEend.html
there is a goose calculator you really have to play with it to get white to work with.
google goose calculator color should bring it up.

 

[NatJ]

Thought i would add this if it helps. Color genetics is not a simple as one color to the other but playing with the duck color calculator I will put a link at the bottom will give you a idea.
Geese colors are a little less complicated but the duck one is easier to understand. There is a goose calculator but you really have to work it I will put that in also.
Put in white Male under choose color Put in Buff (orpington, light as the female.)
Hit Calculate choose continue with this female. and calculate,
Yes you will get white but read the genetic combinations its what they are everyone is caring a different genetic code and it takes 16 babies to get thous combinations. 8 of the 16 will be white but there code is different. A few generations of breeding back to white will simplify the code back to M+M+ Li+Li+ e+e+ bl+bl+ cc B+B+ r+r+ D+D+ Bu+Bu+ which is a pure white duck. Here is the calculator https://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingEend.html
there is a goose calculator you really have to play with it to get white to work with.
google goose calculator color should bring it up.

Thank you for thinking of this. Yes, I've seen the calculator before, I do know how to use it, and I do know the basics of how genes work. (I usually play with the chicken version, but the basic ideas are the same.)

The problem with the goose calculator is that it's only got 4 genes: sexlinked dilution, spotting, blue, buff.

But I've found that old paper, showing that White Chinese have a DIFFERENT white gene than the sexlinked dilution found in the Embdens and most other white breeds.

So I was hoping you knew more about the specific gene(s) that cause white in White Chinese geese, since I can't seem to find anything

 

[JRies]

Thank you for thinking of this. Yes, I've seen the calculator before, I do know how to use it, and I do know the basics of how genes work. (I usually play with the chicken version, but the basic ideas are the same.)

The problem with the goose calculator is that it's only got 4 genes: sexlinked dilution, spotting, blue, buff.

But I've found that old paper, showing that White Chinese have a DIFFERENT white gene than the sexlinked dilution found in the Embdens and most other white breeds.

So I was hoping you knew more about the specific gene(s) that cause white in White Chinese geese, since I can't seem to find anything

Fantastic answer by the way. Geese are really underrated in most ignored. It is really hard to get information. I have to trust what I have learned so far from the breeders who have spent time with me. I did read the PDF you gave a link to about 2 years ago. Got no answers just more questions. Yes spotting blue buff and all the combinations get crazy. I just have to say Im trusting the folks that went before me and there advice. Spending lots of time backing it up looking for answer's. But from I have learned so far it comes down to the right genetic color combination.
Last year i invested in 6 white african geese (kept 4). I have had some good advice on how to improve them. Its a 3 to 6 year process. So just like you I check everything. I have some very good African Browns and some good African Buffs. Yes show quality. Figuring out the combination to bring back into the white will be a 3 year test. So I have asked for allot of advice from breeders.
I appreciate the "

But I've found that old paper, showing that White Chinese have a DIFFERENT white gene than the sexlinked dilution found in the Embdens and most other white breeds."

I wish there was more information or confirmation.
I have been working with sex linked Buff and brown for 2 years now and since I know they are pure many generation Buff Boys and Brown Girls, Iv had great results all Boys brown all girls buff.
I dont think Im going to be able to out breed the color this year. My whites started laying way to early and wouldnt be a year till march. so they may be spent by the time they can be fertile. But will try to look this up to give you any results I come up with. My African Breeding stock, are all Dewlap heavy weights. Not production Africans which are very similar to chinese.