Chicken Breed Focus - Ayam Cemani

[Pyxis]

I wanted to add again, I actually had a real TMA rooster that was directly from her (or rather, I got him from a very honest person that got him directly from her). His type was much different than your rooster's, @uzisuzuki. Here's my boy:

So I really think you are dealing with a dishonest breeder. I don't think your birds are pure TMA line. I suspect they are Mike Bean line crossed with TMA line or just flat out Mike Bean line.

 

[Pyxis]

Darn...we have been typing the exact same time!!! . That's awesome! Well I have seen her line of birds and always thought they looked great so...I just wasn't sure based on what he/she said.

The girl you have from my eggs is actually half TMA half GFF or possibly pure TMA. The rooster I just posted was her father So you have some TMA blood in your flock.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Great question! I never would have thought of that! I mean honestly my Roosters are directly from GFF....I just bought them from a lady who bought them directly.

Well known and respected breeders names sells... it's what marketing is all about... the issue is, that once someone has stock from a well known breeder and produces another generation, that is now their own breeding... they are based on that breeders stock, but it is no longer 'from them'...

Make sense?

And I am not pointing fingers, just making a distinction...

 

[rossfam06]

I wanted to add again, I actually had a real TMA rooster that was directly from her (or rather, I got him from a very honest person that got him directly from her). His type was much different than your rooster's, @uzisuzuki. Here's my boy:

So I really think you are dealing with a dishonest breeder. I don't think your birds are pure TMA line. I suspect they are Mike Bean line crossed with TMA line or just flat out Mike Bean line.

That's terrible!!! Now I feel bad for them. I hate dishonest people. It's so frustrating for those of us are are honest! I hope they didn't pay a butt load for those. :/

 

[rossfam06]

The girl you have from my eggs is actually half TMA half GFF or possibly pure TMA. The rooster I just posted was her father So you have some TMA blood in your flock.

So both of my girls are GFF and TMA lines....that's good to know!

Well known and respected breeders names sells... it's what marketing is all about... the issue is, that once someone has stock from a well known breeder and produces another generation, that is now their own breeding... they are based on that breeders stock, but it is no longer 'from them'...

Make sense?

And I am not pointing fingers, just making a distinction...

So since her breeders were purchased from GFF lines and she sold me roosters once I breed them to my hens their offspring will be Beak Broker line?

Just need some clarification.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Tonie Marie had purebred cemanis, so those that are actually from her lines are pure. She did not try to scam anyone with her birds. The breeder you got yours from may not be so honest.

What comes to mind is that they may have mixed in the Mike Bean/ Smithsonian line of "ayam cemani" that are suspected to be high percentage ayam cemani mixes. They were known to have blue/white earlobes.

I was wondering if that could have been it... I don't have the experience of dealing with that line though since I researched and learned to avoid those names... thanks to you and others...

 

[uzisuzuki]

Well, I got them from the breeder on these boards who's Phoenix are from Toni-Marie also. I definitely wouldn't have thought of him as a dishonest breeder as he is well regarded here as well. As a side note, my two pullets look exactly like the ones shown as an example of TMA's line. I guess I have some stuff to think about now.

 

[Ravynscroft]

So both of my girls are GFF and TMA lines....that's good to know!
So since her breeders were purchased from GFF lines and she sold me roosters once I breed them to my hens their offspring will be Beak Broker line?

Just need some clarification.

Yep, since you are making the choice of which to breed to which... so quality is in your hands from now on in your lines...

 

[Pyxis]

Well, I got them from the breeder on these boards who's Phoenix are from Toni-Marie also. I definitely wouldn't have thought of him as a dishonest breeder as he is well regarded here as well. As a side note, my two pullets look exactly like the ones shown as an example of TMA's line. I guess I have some stuff to think about now.

But did he get his birds directly from Tonie Marie? Tonie Marie liquidated her AC flock years ago so unless he's had his birds for years (four or five) then it's unlikely. That's what you have to think about. If he didn't and got his birds from a dishonest breeder then he's just saying what he was told. Unfortunately it can turn into a he said she said thing rather quickly.

Or it could be a case of a mutation popping up, who knows. But I wouldn't breed him if he passes on the trait.

 

[uzisuzuki]

But did he get his birds directly from Tonie Marie? That's what you have to think about. If he didn't and got his birds from a dishonest breeder then he's just saying what he was told. Unfortunately it can turn into a he said she said thing rather quickly.

Or it could be a case of a mutation popping up, who knows. But I wouldn't breed him if he passes on the trait.

He got them directly from her.

EDIT: I know this because I've had direct dealings with her when I was buying my Phoenix from him. They know each other, are very close friends.