city rules and rooster in city

[blacktan]

hi everyone,
I would like to ask your opinions.
it is my first year raising chickens. I got 5 chicks in last May. it turned out 3 roo and 2 hens. I was stressful worrying if they were roos and then what to do when they were teenage time. I was afraid to imagine fighting each other and found dead etc. But actually, they were get along fine. So I want to keep them all because I already attached to them so much, so are they too. They like to hang around with me and like to be petted too.
I live in florissant, mo and the city rule says need of permit and the number limit. also, there was one section says.
Provisions set out in Sections 205.350 and 205.360 shall not apply to any premises within the City which is used for and as a farm.
so I am practicing self sufficiency life so wanted to try in my current home in florissant. So I have applied for a farm and USDA gave the registration. So when I claimed it to city clerks, what I felt like was they were saying as "no rooster" at all.

But when I read all regulation thoroughly, there is no significantly saying cant have a rooster. Also, I was arguing with the officer because florissant think a farm is considered 3 acre or more land only. mine is just a residential lot of 0.18 acre. USDA encourages to have an urban farming and it says it is ok from 0.1 acre. also, I checked MO rule site, so i am considered agricultural zone, or farmland even though it is residential zoning officially.

So I was upset with the officers or city governors rule because they interpret things in their own definition. Now I need to go to the court.

I know most of city commonly prohibits rooster for noisy. But I noticed i see fox, racoon, opossum, and stray cat every day at night. so they crow more. I have a dog too, but he has brain tumor so I dont expect have him on guard duty, and no plan for adopting another dog until his last day.

sorry for the long story. So do you think roosters should not allow in a city at all? I see many ppl try to rehome roos, but I dont want any of them to lose.

please let me know your opinion.

 

[nuthatched]

Your local government and laws trumps your usda registration, which may or may not give you more exciting paperwork etc during tax season.
Living sustainably does not make you a farm.
If you're zoned residential offically, then your other zoning likely doesn't fall into effect unless you have a larger property, I think It's an acre here, if I remember.

You do have a noise ordinance
https://ecode360.com/28080199

"Section 210.750 Noises Prohibited Generally. [CC 1990 §16-362; Ord. No. 6274, 7-12-1999] A. It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully make or continue or cause to be made or continued any loud, unnecessary or unusual noise which disturbs the neighborhood peace, comfort or repose of persons. The standards which shall be considered in determining whether a violation of the provisions of this Section exist shall include, but not limited to, the following: 1. The volume of the noise; 2. The intensity of the noise; 3. Whether the nature of the noise is usual or unusual; 4. Whether the origin of the noise is natural or unnatural; 5. The volume and intensity of the background noise, if any; 6. The proximity of the noise to the residential sleeping facility; 7. The nature and zoning of the area in which the noise emanates; 8. The density of the inhabitation of the area within which the noise emanates; 9. The time of day or night in which the noise occurs; 10. The duration of the noise; 11. Whether the noise is recurrent, intermittent or constant; 12. Whether or not the noise is produced by commercial or non-commercial activity. B. The type of activity that shall be deemed to be prohibited shall include, but is not limited to, the following: ...
And number 5 on the list is animals and birds.
5.
Animals, birds, etc. The keeping of any animal or bird which will disturb the comfort or repose of any persons in thevicinity by making long, continual or frequent noise."

The hours and ranges under the radio/tv/phonograph Section (2) might be what they use to determine noise violation for animals since it's not construction.
".....between the hours of 11:00 P.M. and 7:00 A.M. in such amanner as to be plainly audible at a distance of fifty (50) feet from the building, structure or vehicle in which it is located shall beprima facie evidence of a violation of this Section.

officers or city governors rule because they interpret things in their own definition.

No offense, but I don't think it's them doing the interpreting by their own definition.
Honestly, by everything you've said and by your own admittance, you're just looking for a loophole to keep birds you've grown attached to. It's understandable and happens often but I really don't think you'll get any leaway in court.
I'd rehome your boys to nice homes and find 2 more pullets for your flock, since you're only allowed four, with permit and proper housing. Your male to female ratio means your hens will get bred and harassed constantly, it's not good for them, mentally or physically.

 

[sourland]

3 cockerels to 2 hens will prove to be an unworkable ratio. Depending on the proximity of neighbors, I can understand the restrictions on roosters in an urban setting.

 

[blacktan]

Your local government and laws trumps your usda registration, which may or may not give you more exciting paperwork etc during tax season.
Living sustainably does not make you a farm.
If you're zoned residential offically, then your other zoning likely doesn't fall into effect unless you have a larger property, I think It's an acre here, if I remember.

You do have a noise ordinance
https://ecode360.com/28080199

"Section 210.750 Noises Prohibited Generally. [CC 1990 §16-362; Ord. No. 6274, 7-12-1999] A. It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully make or continue or cause to be made or continued any loud, unnecessary or unusual noise which disturbs the neighborhood peace, comfort or repose of persons. The standards which shall be considered in determining whether a violation of the provisions of this Section exist shall include, but not limited to, the following: 1. The volume of the noise; 2. The intensity of the noise; 3. Whether the nature of the noise is usual or unusual; 4. Whether the origin of the noise is natural or unnatural; 5. The volume and intensity of the background noise, if any; 6. The proximity of the noise to the residential sleeping facility; 7. The nature and zoning of the area in which the noise emanates; 8. The density of the inhabitation of the area within which the noise emanates; 9. The time of day or night in which the noise occurs; 10. The duration of the noise; 11. Whether the noise is recurrent, intermittent or constant; 12. Whether or not the noise is produced by commercial or non-commercial activity. B. The type of activity that shall be deemed to be prohibited shall include, but is not limited to, the following: ...
And number 5 on the list is animals and birds.
5.
Animals, birds, etc. The keeping of any animal or bird which will disturb the comfort or repose of any persons in thevicinity by making long, continual or frequent noise."

The hours and ranges under the radio/tv/phonograph Section (2) might be what they use to determine noise violation for animals since it's not construction.
".....between the hours of 11:00 P.M. and 7:00 A.M. in such amanner as to be plainly audible at a distance of fifty (50) feet from the building, structure or vehicle in which it is located shall beprima facie evidence of a violation of this Section.



No offense, but I don't think it's them doing the interpreting by their own definition.
Honestly, by everything you've said and by your own admittance, you're just looking for a loophole to keep birds you've grown attached to. It's understandable and happens often but I really don't think you'll get any leaway in court.
I'd rehome your boys to nice homes and find 2 more pullets for your flock, since you're only allowed four, with permit and proper housing. Your male to female ratio means your hens will get bred and harassed constantly, it's not good for them, mentally or physically.

you are probably right. But, I am thinking that I need roosters to protect flock. I may be wrong to do it. But I let them out for free range. All my yard is covered by woodchips, they are my workers too. And I see hawks flying around and other predators. I dont think I can lock them in my 10x7 metal chicken coops only. When I leave home, they are in yard freely. Since I have roosters, I feel more comfortable to let them free range.

I was thinking like rooster is bad thought commonly. But after I have them, realized they have their purpose to have. thats why I have hard time to get rid of them.

I guess I have to move to a bigger and rural area. so dilemma because I am holding on moving due to my dog issue. I thought I get depressed one loss of dog and another dog brain tumor so will watch worsening. But actually he is doing well, I see more years with him too.

I have 3' chain link fence only and they can go over. So I need to make better fence, but not sure if i need to invest in this house.

 

[IdyllwildAcres]

hi everyone,
I would like to ask your opinions.
it is my first year raising chickens. I got 5 chicks in last May. it turned out 3 roo and 2 hens. I was stressful worrying if they were roos and then what to do when they were teenage time. I was afraid to imagine fighting each other and found dead etc. But actually, they were get along fine. So I want to keep them all because I already attached to them so much, so are they too. They like to hang around with me and like to be petted too.
I live in florissant, mo and the city rule says need of permit and the number limit. also, there was one section says.
Provisions set out in Sections 205.350 and 205.360 shall not apply to any premises within the City which is used for and as a farm.
so I am practicing self sufficiency life so wanted to try in my current home in florissant. So I have applied for a farm and USDA gave the registration. So when I claimed it to city clerks, what I felt like was they were saying as "no rooster" at all.

But when I read all regulation thoroughly, there is no significantly saying cant have a rooster. Also, I was arguing with the officer because florissant think a farm is considered 3 acre or more land only. mine is just a residential lot of 0.18 acre. USDA encourages to have an urban farming and it says it is ok from 0.1 acre. also, I checked MO rule site, so i am considered agricultural zone, or farmland even though it is residential zoning officially.

So I was upset with the officers or city governors rule because they interpret things in their own definition. Now I need to go to the court.

I know most of city commonly prohibits rooster for noisy. But I noticed i see fox, racoon, opossum, and stray cat every day at night. so they crow more. I have a dog too, but he has brain tumor so I dont expect have him on guard duty, and no plan for adopting another dog until his last day.

sorry for the long story. So do you think roosters should not allow in a city at all? I see many ppl try to rehome roos, but I dont want any of them to lose.

please let me know your opinion.

why do you want 3 cockerels?

 

[blacktan]

why do you want 3 cockerels?

I adopted them as a pet and chicken manure. I got them when they were chicks. so to me they are my pet. I never thought about them as just chicken meat or egg need. I have back and front yard by thick woodchip and 2 greenhouse etc. So they are doing fine, not so stressful each other.

 

[blacktan]

OP here. Mainly I know someone in the same city district, she has two roos and other hens also, two big dogs. I talked her yesterday. And she said her neighbors ok with rooster sounds. I got some neighbors saying they enjoy my roos too. Mainly, the one who complained was one we had a history. She broke my electric pruner $300 worth of kit and I asked her pay back for the pruner part $150. But she is the next door, and my chickens went over the fence to her yard. it is my fault, but I feel like some grudge or revenge feeling too. She lives with disability brother with housing assistance, and I think she lost job too now. When i hear her phone conversation with always anger and cursing, and the attitude from pruner, since then, we dont talk.

 

[Brooks_]

Ultimately your city codes will prevail. I understand the joy of having a good rooster, but the 3 to two hens you have is bad all around. Even 1 to 3 hens would not be ideal. I agree with above to rehome the boys and get more girls.

Will a rooster protect the flock? Yes and no and yes. I'm sure my rooster protected the flock many times by alerting them to the danger. In his last protection effort it could be said that he did protect them as they are all fine, but he is dead.

It is said that in cases of an all hen flock, one will step up and serve as the look out and in some cases even begin to crow.