Clostridium perfringens?? Help with dosage please

[prinellie]

i posted on here a couple weeks ago about chickens with watery poop. Got fecal float done and they had round and capillaria worms plus cocci... treated with safeguard then had floats done again. Still had cocci but at the same time our vet sent a poop sample to Iowa State for exam. Report came back with clostridium perfringens which my vet says is salmonella. She gave me Tylasaine (which she called tylan) and said 1 tsp in 1 gal water for 5 days. Got home and the label says 10days... ‍ Does anyone know - for SURE - which it is? My vet is very new to chickens but is trying really hard but I need egg-spert advice!!! (The girls still have watery white poop now and haven’t laid for 10 days... nothing!)

 

[azygous]

For starters, salmonella isn't the same as Clostridium perfringens, but they are both forms of food poisoning. Clostridium is associated with botulism. Both are common residents in feces, but usually in very small populations so they don't usually cause problems.

You will know if these two culprits are causing illness due to large amounts in the intestines if the chicken is acting very sick, usually acting lethargic and sleepy.

Tylan can treat these pathogens, but if the patient is not responding to Tylan, another antibiotic can often work. I usually use amoxicillin for ten days. I would hesitate to use Tylan for longer than five days as it's a caustic drug.

With coccidiosis, especially if blood is present in the stools, a sulfa drug is often used along with amprolium to address the damage and secondary infection in the intestines, necrotic enteritis.

 

[Eggcessive]

Clostridium perfringens is not salmonella, but Tylan is one of many different drugs used to treat it. The usual dosage of Tylan Soluble Powder for respiratory diseases is 1 tsp per gallon for 5 days, making sure that she takes enough of the medicated water.
I would call the vet and ask if she wants you to continue it for 10 days, since the treatment for enteritis may well be that.

 

[Eggcessive]

I would also recommend treating for coccidiosis with Corid, since enteritis is usually preceeded by coccidiosis infection, and your fecal float showed that. Talk to the vet about tretaing for one and then the other.

 

[Eggcessive]

The literature says to treat clostridium enteritis with 5 days treatment. Be sure to add powder to a gallon of water (not the water to the powder) since it is hard to mix. Mix a fresh solution every 3 days. Here is a link to read:
https://www.drugs.com/vet/tylan-soluble.html

https://www.elanco.us/products-services/poultry/tylan-soluble

Corid dosage is 2 tsp of the liquid Corid, or 1.5 tsp of the powder per gallon of water mixed fresh daily for 5 days.

 

[coach723]

Was trying to find a way to post the document I have, can't figure out how to do it.....
It says 5 days for Tylan for necrotic enteritis from CP (both CP and salmonella can cause food poisoning, so that may be why the vet said that). I agree with above posts. I would ask about treating the coccida also, since that could be the cause. I've also used amoxicillin for secondary infections from parasites, so worms alone, absent coccidia, can also be a cause due to the disruption of the gut.

 

[prinellie]

She (the vet) is very very new to chickens. So that is why I asked on here! After I treated with safeguard a few of the hens were lethargic for a few days but at no time during this 3-4 weeks have any of them seemed sick! (Other than they stopped laying altogether and the watery poop) The vet thought to treat with tylan and then the corid - let me know what you think though. I have NEVER come across this problem and I have had chickens for 6 years!! I am at my wits end with this!
EDIT: and there has never been any blood in the poop. It just started as water witha bit of green poop and then after the safeguard there were a couple with bright yellow stuff. And now it’s still water with white in it

 

[prinellie]

We are mixing the tylasaine with warm water in a small jar and then dumping it in the gallon waterer. We are mixing it fresh every day. And the vet said we need to wear gloves when using the tylasaine... omg! I have never had to worry about THAT before!?!
EDIT: when I was treating with the safeguard I did the corid also (2tsp/gallon) the second fecal said there was still the cocci but the worms were gone.

 

[azygous]

Usually, if a secondary infection in the intestines is suspected along with coccidiosis, an antibiotic, usually a sulfa antibiotic, is used alongside amprolium to treat the coccidiosis. So using Tylan at the same time as you're administering amprolium is actually preferable to treating first with the antibiotic followed by amprolium for the coccidia. Necrotic enteritis occurs when the coccidia are present in large amounts and are eroding the intestinal lining. Logically, you want to treat the cause of the intestinal erosion as you're treating for the coccidia.

I mentioned that Tylosin is a caustic drug. If you come into contact with Tylosin, it can cause a skin inflammation, but washing your hands after handling the drug is all that's needed. Tylan is also caustic to the chicken's tissue when administered by injection. You're doing it orally, so you don't need to worry about that.

 

[prinellie]

Usually, if a secondary infection in the intestines is suspected along with coccidiosis, an antibiotic, usually a sulfa antibiotic, is used alongside amprolium to treat the coccidiosis. So using Tylan at the same time as you're administering amprolium is actually preferable to treating first with the antibiotic followed by amprolium for the coccidia. Necrotic enteritis occurs when the coccidia are present in large amounts and are eroding the intestinal lining. Logically, you want to treat the cause of the intestinal erosion as you're treating for the coccidia.

I mentioned that Tylosin is a caustic drug. If you come into contact with Tylosin, it can cause a skin inflammation, but washing your hands after handling the drug is all that's needed. Tylan is also caustic to the chicken's tissue when administered by injection. You're doing it orally, so you don't need to worry about that.

Gosh! Thank you so much. We will add the corid. Now can you tell me...
1) what do you think the likely cause of the initial water-poop was?
2) is there anything we need to do if/when it stops to keep it from happening again ie re-infect? I try to clean out the coop completely ever 4 days or so when it starts to feel wet in there.
3) if this is botulism I am more worried than ever about the eggs that were collected for the 2 or so weeks before I realized there was watery poop and we started treatment. Will the botulism be in or on the eggs? I have 17 hens. Nothing has been laid since I did the safeguard and corid two weeks ago.