Cochin Thread!!!

[lilcrow]

Quote:
Did you have these two hens separated? and away from each other? I've seen some folks that let their hens hatch in a "community" setting, but I've not seen that work very well most of the time. Hens must have their own space and protected from the other chickens while they're brooding and hatching. If they are housed together, it is possible that she didn't kill the chick, it may have been the other hen. My experience and observation has been that hens are notoriously mean/dangerous with chicks that are not their own. Mothers that are experienced and many first time moms know how to protect their babies, but some first time mothers don't know until it's too late. IF she is brooding WITH the other hen I wouldn't give up on her yet, just give her protection and then see what happens. Oh, and don't mess with them all the time, they will often abandon the nest if you change things around on them. I'm not going to say there aren't Cochins that never go broody, and won't raise there own chicks, but I've never seen one. Just don't expect any hen to take strange chicks, it's a recipe for disaster.
I'm certain now there will be someone or several folks that will answer saying that they let all their hens hatch together and never have a problem, but I'm talking about the norm and the majority of the time.

 

[lilcrow]

Oh, by the way I totally agree with nicalandia, I live on disability and I can't afford that book either (I want it, but it may be in another life that I get it), I'm not as knowledgeable as she is, but I've learned a lot from the Internet and certain other breeders. There are some VERY advanced breeders on BYC and the breed club. You could also try Cochins International, there's a lot to read there.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
My less expensive recommendation would be Brian Reeder's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-...=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310754161&sr=1-3

 

[thecochincoop]

I have lost a few chicks to other hens killing them so it's a good idea to separate them

 

[lilcrow]

Quote:
My less expensive recommendation would be Brian Reeder's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-...=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310754161&sr=1-3

I forgot about that one Gail, does it stack up to D Hancox book? I guess what I'm asking is, could I understand it?

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
My less expensive recommendation would be Brian Reeder's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-...=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310754161&sr=1-3

I forgot about that one Gail, does it stack up to D Hancox book? I guess what I'm asking is, could I understand it?

Nancy, If I can get through it, anyone can!! I still use it a lot, and cross-reference it with the VanDort-Hancox book. No pictures, but very simply laid out and easy to read. Here is a link to Reeder's website:
http://poultrygenetics.bravehost.com/

This is an outline of his book that I put together over a year ago for another group I belong to:
The Genetics of Color and Pattern:
Melanin (pigment) – two forms:
Pheomelanin (red pigment) – two types:
Autosomal
Sex-Linked
Eumelanin (black pigment)
The E-Locus:
e+ Wild type or Duckwing
eWh Wheaten
eb Brown
ER Birchen
E Extended Black
The order of dominance in the e-allele is: E->ER->eWh (without melanizers present)
e+->eb->eWh (when melanizers are present)
The Gene List:
Diluters which have a greater influence on pheomelanin:
S – Sex-linked Silver
ap+ - Absence of Autosomal pheomelanin
Di – Dilute
Cb – Champagne Blonde
ig – inhibitor of gold
Diluters which have a greater influence on Eumelanin:
I – Dominant white
Bl – Blue
Id – Dun
“rc” – recessive chocolate
Diluters with an equal effect on both forms of melanin:
lav – lavender
Intensifiers of Pheomelanin:
Mh – Mahogany
Extenders of Pheomelanin:
Co – Columbian
Db – Dark Brown “ginger”
Extenders of Eumelanin:
Ml – Melanotic
cha – charcoal
“rb” – recessive black
Genes removing all pigment:
c - Recessive white
Feather-pattern modifier genes:
Pg – Pattern gene
B – sex-linked Barring
mo – mottling
Composite Combinations:
Wild type or Duckwing (e+) – chick down is chipmunk striped; aka agouti (when not affected by other dilution or enhancement genes)
Wheaten (eWh) – chick down, in general, tends to be solid white or yellow or pale orange, with no patterning
Brown (eb) – chick down has the greatest variation of all alleles; the basic eb s+ chick is quite like the e+s+ chick, but they are more diffused in their striping down the back; difficult to determine this allele by chick down alone
Birchen (ER) – chick down, in most instances, is black with a reddish head, even when S is present
Extended Black (E) – chick down of this allele is black and marbled on the undersides with yellow to white
Color Varieties and Patterns: (shown by common variety name, then (genetically correct name))
Duckwing (e+)
e+ Varieties based on s+:
Black Breasted Red, Partridge (Red Duckwing)
Light Brown (Dilute Red Duckwing)
Cream Light Brown (Cream Red Duckwing)
Dark Brown (Mahogany Red Duckwing)
Blue Red (Blue Red Duckwing)
Blue Light Brown (Blue Dilute Red Duckwing)
Red Pyle (Dominant White Red Duckwing)
Crele (Barred Red Duckwing)
Ginger Red (Ginger Red Duckwing)
Red Quill (Autosomal Barred Red Duckwing)
Brassy Back (Melanized Dilute Red Duckwing)
Quail (Melanized Columbian Red Duckwing)
“Spangled” or “Speckled” as in OEG or Sussex – NOT Hamburg (Mottled Dark Red Duckwing)
e+ Varieties based on S:
Silver Duckwing (same)
Golden Duckwing (same)
Blue Silver Duckwing (same)
Blue Golden Duckwing (same)
White (Dominant White Silver Duckwing)
Red Shoulder as in Yokohama – (shortened – White Spangled Mahogany Dilute Duckwing)
Wheaten (eWh)
eWh Varieties based on s+:
Wheaten (Dilute Orange Wheaten; Red Wheaten; Mahogany Red Wheaten)
Dark Black Breasted Red as in Cubalaya (Dark Red Wheaten)
Red Cap (Spangled Dark Red Wheaten)
Black tailed Buff (Dilute Ginger Red Wheaten; lighter birds with Columbian: Dilute Columbian Red Wheaten)
Black tailed “Red” as in New Hampshire (Mahogany Dilute Ginger Red Wheaten)
Black tailed Red as in RI Red (Mahogany Ginger Red Wheaten)
Buff (Pheomelanically Extended Dilute Red Wheaten, or Buff Wheaten)
Red (Pheomelanically Extended Red Wheaten, or Self Red Wheaten)
eWh Varieties based on S:
Silver Wheaten (same)
Salmon as in favorelle (Mahogany Silver Wheaten)
Black tailed White (Ginger Silver Wheaten)
Brown (eb)
eb Varieties based on s+:
Dark Brown as in Leghorn; Brown as in Cochin (Dark Red Brown)
Partridge as in Cochin, Wyandotte, Rock (Patterned mahogany red Brown
Dark as in Cornish; Double Laced as in Barnevelder (Double Laced Red Brown)
Jubilee (White Double Laced Red Brown)
Buff Columbian; Buff as in Brahma (Columbian Red Brown)
Vorwerk (Melanized Columbian red Brown)
Golden Laced as in Cochin or Wyandotte (Laced Columbian Red Brown)
Blue Laced Red (Blue Laced Mahogany Columbian Red Brown; Blue Laced Red Brown for short)
White Laced Red (White Laced Red Brown)
Mille Fleur (Mottled Ginger Red Brown)
Porcelain (Lavender Mottled Ginger Red Brown
Blue Mille Fleur (Blue Mottled Ginger Red Brown)
Golden Neck (Dominant White Mottled Ginger Red Brown)
Golden Penciled as in Hamburg (males – Ginger Red Brown; females Patterned Ginger Red Brown)
Yellow White Penciled as in Friesian (Dominant White Patterned Ginger Red Brown)
Golden Spangled as in Hamburg (Melanized Patterned Ginger Red Brown; or Spangled Ginger Red Brown)
eb Varieties based on S:
Silver Penciled as in Cochin, Wyandotte, Rock; Dark as in Brahma (Patterned Silver Brown)
Columbian as in Cochin, Wyandotte, Rock; Light as in Brahma (Columbian Silver Brown)
Lakenvelder (Melanized Columbian Silver Brown)
Silver Laced as in Cochin, Wyandotte (Laced Columbian Silver Brown)
Silver Penciled as in Hamburg (males – Ginger Silver Brown; females – Patterned Ginger Silver Brown)
White (same)
Black as in Wyandotte, Leghorn (Fully Melanized Brown)
Birchen (ER)
ER Varieties based on s+:
Brown Red, Lemon Brown (in Cochin – Red Birchen) (in OEG and Modern Game – Dilute Red Birchen)
Blue Red, Lemon Blue (same as above – add Blue: Blue Red Birchen and Blue Dilute Red Birchen)
Black tailed Buff in OEG made on ER (Dilute Ginger Red Birchen)
Golden Penciled as in Campine, Braekel (Patterned Ginger Red Birchen)
Golden Laced as in Polish, Seabright (Laced Ginger Red Birchen)
Black (Melanized Red Birchen)
ER Varieties based on S:
Birchen (Silver Birchen)
Silver Blue (Bl/bl+ Blue Silver Birchen; Bl/Bl Splash Silver Birchen)
Silver Penciled as in Campine, Braekel (Patterned Ginger Silver Birchen
Silver Spangled as in Hamburg (Spangled Ginger Silver Birchen)
Silver Laced as in Polish, Seabright (Laced Ginger Silver Birchen)
Black (Melanized Silver Birchen)
White as in Leghorn (Dominant White Silver Birchen)
Extended Black (E)
Black (Melanized Extended Black
White (Dominant White Extended Black or Recessive White Extended Black)
Mottled (Mottled Melanized Extended Black or Mottled Black)
Barred and/or Cuckoo (Barred Melanized Extended Black; Cuckoo Melanized Extended Black)
Blue and “Splash” (Single Dilute or Double Dilute Blue Melanized Extended Black)
Dun and Dun Splash (Single Dilute or Double Dilute Dun Melanized Extended Black)
Lavender (Lavender Melanized Extended Black)
Chocolate (chocolate Melanized Extended Black)

 

[lilcrow]

Gail, did you get all of this understanding from Brian Reeder's book? or did it make a big difference to have Hancox book? Just reading through your outline helped clarify a few things for me. It brought up some question though also. Regarding the lavender gene, is it the gene necessary to create the lemon blue since it influences both red and black?

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
I bought Reeder's book while I was saving up for the VanDort/Hancox book! I think they complement each other - I go back and forth between the two when I'm trying to clarify or better understand something - which is still A LOT!!! I would recommend Reeder's book even if you already have the other one.

I'm at work right now, so don't have the books in front of me. But regarding the Lemon Blue - I can tell you that the lavender gene (self-blue) is NOT involved. Lemon Blue is Brown Red x Blue.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
this much is true... I mated my Lemon Buff hen(eWh) with a Gold Crowing OEG(Er/eb) and I got 2 chicks.. a Blue one(Bl from mother) and a eb looking one (eWh/eb) I guess my crowing OEG carries melinizers

check the eb looking chick

 

[lilcrow]

Quote:
I bought Reeder's book while I was saving up for the VanDort/Hancox book! I think they complement each other - I go back and forth between the two when I'm trying to clarify or better understand something - which is still A LOT!!! I would recommend Reeder's book even if you already have the other one.

I'm at work right now, so don't have the books in front of me. But regarding the Lemon Blue - I can tell you that the lavender gene (self-blue) is NOT involved. Lemon Blue is Brown Red x Blue.

I know you can't get to your books, but I thought blue couldn't dilute red. That's what always has confused me about the LB's. I know you have to have brown/red to start so that you have the pattern set, and you can dilute the black to blue, I just have never understood how you dilute the red. That's why I was wondering if Lav was involved since it will dilute the red.