Quote:
Good eye
I got her from henpen.
How Cool
Good eye
I got her from henpen.
How Cool
Cochin Thread!!!
- Thread starter Settler'sDreamFarm
- Start date
cought one of my cochin roo's this morning, he hated being picked up, but loved to be peted soooo cute. didi not hink i would love cochins as much as i do <3
Looking for some large fowl Blue eggs for next spring.
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Mostly you see it in the cushions and back of the females. Whether to cull it and when is tricky. Sometimes the pullets will show it in their chick feathers but lose as they mature, and those pullets are normally the ones with very good undercolor. I am still learning a bunch about this pattern, and it has helped tremendously to have Columbian Rocks and Columbian Wyandottes to compare too.
As far as the definition of smut in the Columbians, it would be any black or gray markings or ticking in the surface of the feathers where they should be completely white. The tail coverts are supposed to be Black laced with white and quite often the white lacing will be quite broken up of the feather will just be black and white with not apparent pattern. They sometimes have Black ticking in the breast as well. Once they are putting in their first set of adult plumage I would say it's safe to decide whether to cull for color. I err on the side of waiting to see how the type looks first before I make a final decision on a bird with so so markings. The males are bit tougher because they don't really show smut, but you want to look for a nice black diamond shaped center to the saddle feathers. Very tough to get in Columbian Cochins. Usually they'll have a white middle to the diamond. I think if we can get consistend solid centers on both male saddles and hackles and the female hackles, we'll see improvements in the wing markings. The different sections of the bird are related (IMO) as far as the pattern goes. If we can get it right in one area, the others will fall into place, although it's still going to be a few years of patience and persistence.
Mostly you see it in the cushions and back of the females. Whether to cull it and when is tricky. Sometimes the pullets will show it in their chick feathers but lose as they mature, and those pullets are normally the ones with very good undercolor. I am still learning a bunch about this pattern, and it has helped tremendously to have Columbian Rocks and Columbian Wyandottes to compare too.
As far as the definition of smut in the Columbians, it would be any black or gray markings or ticking in the surface of the feathers where they should be completely white. The tail coverts are supposed to be Black laced with white and quite often the white lacing will be quite broken up of the feather will just be black and white with not apparent pattern. They sometimes have Black ticking in the breast as well. Once they are putting in their first set of adult plumage I would say it's safe to decide whether to cull for color. I err on the side of waiting to see how the type looks first before I make a final decision on a bird with so so markings. The males are bit tougher because they don't really show smut, but you want to look for a nice black diamond shaped center to the saddle feathers. Very tough to get in Columbian Cochins. Usually they'll have a white middle to the diamond. I think if we can get consistend solid centers on both male saddles and hackles and the female hackles, we'll see improvements in the wing markings. The different sections of the bird are related (IMO) as far as the pattern goes. If we can get it right in one area, the others will fall into place, although it's still going to be a few years of patience and persistence.
- Mar 21, 2010
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Quote:
Mostly you see it in the cushions and back of the females. Whether to cull it and when is tricky. Sometimes the pullets will show it in their chick feathers but lose as they mature, and those pullets are normally the ones with very good undercolor. I am still learning a bunch about this pattern, and it has helped tremendously to have Columbian Rocks and Columbian Wyandottes to compare too.
As far as the definition of smut in the Columbians, it would be any black or gray markings or ticking in the surface of the feathers where they should be completely white. The tail coverts are supposed to be Black laced with white and quite often the white lacing will be quite broken up of the feather will just be black and white with not apparent pattern. They sometimes have Black ticking in the breast as well. Once they are putting in their first set of adult plumage I would say it's safe to decide whether to cull for color. I err on the side of waiting to see how the type looks first before I make a final decision on a bird with so so markings. The males are bit tougher because they don't really show smut, but you want to look for a nice black diamond shaped center to the saddle feathers. Very tough to get in Columbian Cochins. Usually they'll have a white middle to the diamond. I think if we can get consistend solid centers on both male saddles and hackles and the female hackles, we'll see improvements in the wing markings. The different sections of the bird are related (IMO) as far as the pattern goes. If we can get it right in one area, the others will fall into place, although it's still going to be a few years of patience and persistence.
Because the GLCs carry the Co gene, how much of that color pattern do you expect on their wing markings?
Mostly you see it in the cushions and back of the females. Whether to cull it and when is tricky. Sometimes the pullets will show it in their chick feathers but lose as they mature, and those pullets are normally the ones with very good undercolor. I am still learning a bunch about this pattern, and it has helped tremendously to have Columbian Rocks and Columbian Wyandottes to compare too.
As far as the definition of smut in the Columbians, it would be any black or gray markings or ticking in the surface of the feathers where they should be completely white. The tail coverts are supposed to be Black laced with white and quite often the white lacing will be quite broken up of the feather will just be black and white with not apparent pattern. They sometimes have Black ticking in the breast as well. Once they are putting in their first set of adult plumage I would say it's safe to decide whether to cull for color. I err on the side of waiting to see how the type looks first before I make a final decision on a bird with so so markings. The males are bit tougher because they don't really show smut, but you want to look for a nice black diamond shaped center to the saddle feathers. Very tough to get in Columbian Cochins. Usually they'll have a white middle to the diamond. I think if we can get consistend solid centers on both male saddles and hackles and the female hackles, we'll see improvements in the wing markings. The different sections of the bird are related (IMO) as far as the pattern goes. If we can get it right in one area, the others will fall into place, although it's still going to be a few years of patience and persistence.
Because the GLCs carry the Co gene, how much of that color pattern do you expect on their wing markings?
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Joanie, 99.99% of us will never be Master Breeders or Master Exhibitors, and you won't see pics of our birds in Poultry Press. And that's just fine - unless your goal is to be a Master Breeder. But if your goal was to be a Master Breeder or Exhibitor, then I'm thinking you probably never would have bought the birds in the first place, because you would already know the SOP inside-out.
So 99.99% of us are Master Hobbyists or Fanciers.
All of us have had our birds critiqued at one time or another - and most of the time, although it's meant as constructive criticism, it's still hard to take. We have fallen in love with what we thought was the perfect bird, only to find out its not perfect - only average.
I've had my share of let-downs here, too, but I consider each a stepping stone to improving my knowledge and breeding techniques.
We need breeders such as yourself to continue posting - many of us learn just as much when you share your experiences as we do from Tom's. And we truly enjoy seeing pics of your birds. (Personnally, I'd love to see more on how your Lemon Blues are progressing - if I remember right, you were getting pretty close to getting the color stabilized while maintaining type.)
And we need Tom to continue his great contributions, as well as his constructive criticisms. I don't want to see him to hold back on his critiques, any more than I want to see you hold back on your posts.
Sorry....
Joanie, certainly not my intent to offend, rather to provide constructive criticism in a forum setting. Couple reasons. The main title of this overall forum thread is "Breeds, genetics & showing." I get it, not everyone on here is concerned that their birds meet the standard to the letter, and that's fine. This is a hobby, and each of us focuses on different aspects and enjoys it in our own way. However, I feel I have certain responsibility to the hobby, as both a breed club president and an ABA director to share what I've learned through trial and error and what I know specifically about Cochins, which certainly isn't everything. I have always been hesitant to post replys or make comments on other fanciers birds because it's sometime difficult to relay via forum posts the inflection behind the words. There is no such thing as a perfect chicken, at least not when critiqued against the standard. If there were I doubt this would be much fun. The challeng is to get as close as possible. I am my birds own worst critic, and while I do show, the showing part is not why I am in this hobby. I get more enjoyment out of the breeding aspect. Genetics calculators are great tools if you know the exact genetic make up of the birds you started with. So at best they provide predictive analysis in many cases. Before I get way off topic I'll steer back to where I was going. Too many times I've seen folks that are new to the hobby (especially kids) purchase something from a hatchery or over the internet as a particular breed or variety. They raise them and then enter them in their local fair show or their first open junior show only to find out that their bird looks nothing like the other birds in the class, and they are confused because the hatchery said that it was a "fill in the breed/variety" but it doesn't look these other birds. Partridge Cochin Bantams need more breeders. There are very few sources to get birds from. If you really like the variety, I hope you stick with them. If you need some birds to work into your breeding program, let me know and I can give you a couple names, but you may have to wait a bit for availability. I enjoy reading the posts, and especially like the ones that get into the breeding aspect. The threads on Columbians is pretty interesting and with the photos it makes them even more educational, for me, and hopefully for the others that are reading. At any rate, my critique was not meant to offend. I was going for constructive information.
Joanie, 99.99% of us will never be Master Breeders or Master Exhibitors, and you won't see pics of our birds in Poultry Press. And that's just fine - unless your goal is to be a Master Breeder. But if your goal was to be a Master Breeder or Exhibitor, then I'm thinking you probably never would have bought the birds in the first place, because you would already know the SOP inside-out.
So 99.99% of us are Master Hobbyists or Fanciers.
All of us have had our birds critiqued at one time or another - and most of the time, although it's meant as constructive criticism, it's still hard to take. We have fallen in love with what we thought was the perfect bird, only to find out its not perfect - only average.
I've had my share of let-downs here, too, but I consider each a stepping stone to improving my knowledge and breeding techniques.
We need breeders such as yourself to continue posting - many of us learn just as much when you share your experiences as we do from Tom's. And we truly enjoy seeing pics of your birds. (Personnally, I'd love to see more on how your Lemon Blues are progressing - if I remember right, you were getting pretty close to getting the color stabilized while maintaining type.)
And we need Tom to continue his great contributions, as well as his constructive criticisms. I don't want to see him to hold back on his critiques, any more than I want to see you hold back on your posts.
Sorry....
Joanie, certainly not my intent to offend, rather to provide constructive criticism in a forum setting. Couple reasons. The main title of this overall forum thread is "Breeds, genetics & showing." I get it, not everyone on here is concerned that their birds meet the standard to the letter, and that's fine. This is a hobby, and each of us focuses on different aspects and enjoys it in our own way. However, I feel I have certain responsibility to the hobby, as both a breed club president and an ABA director to share what I've learned through trial and error and what I know specifically about Cochins, which certainly isn't everything. I have always been hesitant to post replys or make comments on other fanciers birds because it's sometime difficult to relay via forum posts the inflection behind the words. There is no such thing as a perfect chicken, at least not when critiqued against the standard. If there were I doubt this would be much fun. The challeng is to get as close as possible. I am my birds own worst critic, and while I do show, the showing part is not why I am in this hobby. I get more enjoyment out of the breeding aspect. Genetics calculators are great tools if you know the exact genetic make up of the birds you started with. So at best they provide predictive analysis in many cases. Before I get way off topic I'll steer back to where I was going. Too many times I've seen folks that are new to the hobby (especially kids) purchase something from a hatchery or over the internet as a particular breed or variety. They raise them and then enter them in their local fair show or their first open junior show only to find out that their bird looks nothing like the other birds in the class, and they are confused because the hatchery said that it was a "fill in the breed/variety" but it doesn't look these other birds. Partridge Cochin Bantams need more breeders. There are very few sources to get birds from. If you really like the variety, I hope you stick with them. If you need some birds to work into your breeding program, let me know and I can give you a couple names, but you may have to wait a bit for availability. I enjoy reading the posts, and especially like the ones that get into the breeding aspect. The threads on Columbians is pretty interesting and with the photos it makes them even more educational, for me, and hopefully for the others that are reading. At any rate, my critique was not meant to offend. I was going for constructive information.
Quote:
You see, that's what my fascination with it is too - the breeding and genetics aspect of it.
What really ticks me off is when people don't differentiate between the two - they lump showing and breeding together like you can't be doing one without the other. Plenty of people are breeding fantastic birds that they don't show. And plenty of people are showing fantastic birds that they didn't breed themselves. Anyone can go out and spend the money on a good-quality bird to show just like that, but not everyone has the patience to learn the genetics and breed a show-quality bird. They're completely different aspects of raising birds.
Sorry - sort of unrelated to what you were saying, Tom, just reminded me of something someone said to me recently that I wanted to comment on.
You see, that's what my fascination with it is too - the breeding and genetics aspect of it.
What really ticks me off is when people don't differentiate between the two - they lump showing and breeding together like you can't be doing one without the other. Plenty of people are breeding fantastic birds that they don't show. And plenty of people are showing fantastic birds that they didn't breed themselves. Anyone can go out and spend the money on a good-quality bird to show just like that, but not everyone has the patience to learn the genetics and breed a show-quality bird. They're completely different aspects of raising birds.
Sorry - sort of unrelated to what you were saying, Tom, just reminded me of something someone said to me recently that I wanted to comment on.
I am loving this thread so far. I just picked up my first cochin. A bantam frizz hen. I bought her at the local fair. Someone there had Giant cochins, they were huge and soooo beautiful. I can't wait to find me some. Here is a pic of my new addition. She will live with a reg silkie roo.
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She's really pretty, and I know you're going to just love her, (as will your Silkie roo)! But I don't think she's Cochin, or at least not pure Cochin. Looks like she already has a lot of Silkie in her, judging from the feathers on her head and her stance.
She's really pretty, and I know you're going to just love her, (as will your Silkie roo)! But I don't think she's Cochin, or at least not pure Cochin. Looks like she already has a lot of Silkie in her, judging from the feathers on her head and her stance.
She's really pretty, and I know you're going to just love her, (as will your Silkie roo)! But I don't think she's Cochin, or at least not pure Cochin. Looks like she already has a lot of Silkie in her, judging from the feathers on her head and her stance.
Awe..Really? Oh well, I am a newbie and she was cheap, so I will just love her. I do plan on getting some pure cochins next year. The lady had silkies too , she might have told me mix and I just didn't listen well. She is very sweet and quite the talker.
Awe..Really? Oh well, I am a newbie and she was cheap, so I will just love her. I do plan on getting some pure cochins next year. The lady had silkies too , she might have told me mix and I just didn't listen well. She is very sweet and quite the talker.
Ok so she is in rough shape now (way to many roos former home) but I think she might clean up well what do you think of her?Honesty I have thick skin she was free.She is in isolation but I do let her outside while my flock is in.
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