Coronavirus, Covid 19 Discussion and How It Has Affected Your Daily Life Chat Thread

[spartacus_63]

I did not take Winter's post as discouragement, but rather as choice. We certainly should all be celebrated for having an opinion, regardless if it is popular.
I agree that there are other medical choices and that a vaccine is not the ONLY salvation. I read again today, articles (one in Norway & one in CA) about how the vaccine should not be given to the frail and in CA a halt to a large batch that has produced inordinately high allergic reactions.
Without a doubt there is risk in taking this or any vaccine. I am not an anti-vaccine person. I was in the military for 26 years in rapid deployment units which requires vaccines to be given annually or semi annually. I received the Yellow Fever, Anthrax and a second round of Small Pox, but those were required for me to do my job. I also used Hydroxychloroquine or derivatives there of, numerous times I'll not likely get this vaccine, or the flu vaccine of choice for this year. I'm simply not that concerned about it, even if I get it. I know many that have had it and they were not debilitated and none of them have had their DNA noticeably changed.
The bottom line for me, and I emphasize "ME", vaccines should not be looked at as a way to achieve herd immunity, it should be looked at as a means of self protection. No one is responsible for the health of others. No one should be mandated to take any action that may put them at risk simply to make others feel better. If you want or need the vaccine, then get in line. If you do not, then don't worry about those that do. Don't ever expect me to do something I do not feel is best for me on your behalf, that is simply selfish.
As for the alternative, Winter listed several. The one I personally prefer is to avoid exposure and prayer. When it is my time to go, no vaccine will intercede.

 

[Winter Creek Coop]

I did not take Winter's post as discouragement, but rather as choice. We certainly should all be celebrated for having an opinion, regardless if it is popular.
I agree that there are other medical choices and that a vaccine is not the ONLY salvation. I read again today, articles (one in Norway & one in CA) about how the vaccine should not be given to the frail and in CA a halt to a large batch that has produced inordinately high allergic reactions.
Without a doubt there is risk in taking this or any vaccine. I am not an anti-vaccine person. I was in the military for 26 years in rapid deployment units which requires vaccines to be given annually or semi annually. I received the Yellow Fever, Anthrax and a second round of Small Pox, but those were required for me to do my job. I also used Hydroxychloroquine or derivatives there of, numerous times I'll not likely get this vaccine, or the flu vaccine of choice for this year. I'm simply not that concerned about it, even if I get it. I know many that have had it and they were not debilitated and none of them have had their DNA noticeably changed.
The bottom line for me, and I emphasize "ME", vaccines should not be looked at as a way to achieve herd immunity, it should be looked at as a means of self protection. No one is responsible for the health of others. No one should be mandated to take any action that may put them at risk simply to make others feel better. If you want or need the vaccine, then get in line. If you do not, then don't worry about those that do. Don't ever expect me to do something I do not feel is best for me on your behalf, that is simply selfish.
As for the alternative, Winter listed several. The one I personally prefer is to avoid exposure and prayer. When it is my time to go, no vaccine will intercede.

Well said.

Also to chocolatemouse, I had never read your second post about the animal data. I will look at it.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

We're all in the same boat. Just because you've chosen to dig a hole into the ocean in only your cabin doesn't mean you won't sink the ship.

Every time you drive, cook a meal, shoot a gun, smoke in public, wash your hands, etc. you are responsible for someone else's health. Yet we have laws about licensing, food safety, where you can smoke, where you can use guns, that certain people must wash their hands, and more. Many places like school dorms even require vaccines. This is not new. We regulate personal behavior for public and personal health reasons constantly because we're all constantly making choices that effect other people.

Personally I damn well hope we keep doing that. I don't want it to ever be someones personal choice to put me at risk without consequences.

It's not selfish to expect other people not to kill you. It it selfish to expect them to die for your convenience. And we enforce that legally and privately all the time.

There's no strong historical or legal precedent for freedom of choice coming before public health hazards.

(And not getting the vaccine but choosing to stay isolated and mask is a far cry from posting links claiming the vaccine is unsafe and gonna kill people...)

 

[Winter Creek Coop]

If we have safe and proven medicines, specifically ivermectin and hcq, that reduce the mortality to almost nil when given early, wouldn’t that be a great path to herd immunity? These meds are cheap and effective. Why does Africa have 1% of the death rate the US has? Maybe because so many Africans are already on HCQ and ivermectin for malaria and parasite preventative.

Many doctors are still ignorant of these treatments in the US. These are very available and affordable meds. No waiting for the tired, the poor, the tempest tossed. HCQ and ivermectin are over the counter in much of the developing world. Why is an experimental therapy favored for achieving herd immunity(which according to Dr. Gupta may not even be an attribute if this experimental therapy) over proven, cheap, safe drugs?

 

[ChocolateMouse]

HCQ has been heavily politicized but seriously debunked scientifically and may actually make things worse. FDA banned it's use for Coronavirus for not improving recovery and causing frequent complications.

Ivermectin has only been shown to work in mild cases to a moderate degree from everything I've read.

Neither of these reduce the death rate to nil.
Africa's cases are not low, they have a low testing rate. Their own CDC says they have higher mortality than the international average.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53181555
"The Africa CDC says that currently 20 out of 55 countries have case fatality rates (the percentage of those with Covid who die) higher than the global average of 2.2%."

Vaccines are not experimental. This one has been tested and proven to work. It is safe.

I've provided an awful lot of reliable citation for my info. Where is yours coming from? Talking heads are not reliable citation.

 

[Winter Creek Coop]

 

[Winter Creek Coop]

 

[Winter Creek Coop]

I posted these links with dozens of studies available on these links. Go to the links a s scroll down. https://c19ivermectin.com

 

[MROO]

Your analogy is a bit simple. My actions do not affect you. Because I do not have COVID and I have a 90% chance of never getting it, I am not digging anything. Simple reason without hysteria will show that the sky is not falling Henny Penny. It is very easy to worst case everything, but it only displays your lack of a cogent argument. I am also not prone to being guilted into action, especially in the absence of facts.
We do have an abundance of regulation, each of them is another loss to our liberty. I do not agree with government mandated vaccines at schools. Not that vaccines are not good for schools, in fact I believe they are, but schools should be governed by the local communities for which they serve and those folks should decide what is best for their communities. It really doesn't matter what I think is best, it is We the People that govern this Republic. There are far better ways to regulate behavior than by having Big Brother figure it out for us.
Many communities prohibit raising chickens in suburban areas for mostly ignorant reasons. They got away with it for many years because most people didn't raise chickens in their backyard so it was not a concern. You see, the government is not all that smart when it comes to liberty. They think if you have a differing opinion from those in positions of authority, that you are ill informed, when most times the opposite is true.
I am a States rights guy and I am an advocate for liberty. COVID 19 is highly contagious, but it really isn't all that deadly. It has killed a good number of folks, but we really do not know the extent of it's true lethality. You can differ in opinion on that, but without real facts, you aren't going to change many minds. The death rate in the US is .0012% of the population. I'm not all that concerned.

Can Y'all take this conversation elsewhere, please. It's getting redundant and taking over the thread for the rest of us. You've all stated your opinions, "Here" is not the place to hold out proselytizing until you can convince someone else. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion and approach. No, everyone is NOT entitled to repeat it ad nauseum until they convince the rest of the world they're right. Give it a rest or take it somewhere else. Please!

 

[MROO]

On a much lighter note ... I found this "by accident" and had to share ... right after I picked my jaw up off the floor! Full Screen and Sound on ... trust me on that one!