Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[halefamily_flock]

Gimmie a side view so I can judge back length and tail angle better, please, otherwise I can tell you his barring is rather rough and he's got too much white on his tail. His comb is not flopped so that's great. He looks like he could fill out more, so I would like a picture of him in a few months so we can see him more filled out, we want a wedge shaped boy. He's keeping his wings tucked up, so that's another plus. Am I seeing a wrinkled wattle? That's not a deal breaker but it's something to work on later.

Here are some better angles on wattle. Is it supposed to be completely smooth, without any creases?

Is there a crest?

Yes. It's hard to see now that his comb is so full.

 

[Bantambird]

Is there a crest?

It's teeny but I see a few feathers that could be a small crest sticking out from under his comb

 

[halefamily_flock]

Here is a video of the flock when the Legbars were 7 months old. The first Legbar cockerel out of the door is one I decided not to keep. He wasn't respected by the girls and never learned to crow right. It was a very strange and annoying sound he made, even thought he was otherwise very sweet. He had more black in his tail and belly. The one I kept (pictures in prior post) comes out at :35 in the video, followed by my favorite Legbar pullet (at :46) and then the 2nd Legbar pullet, which has turned out to be a better egg producer (at 1:01, in the background).

Here is the 2nd pullet, more recently. She's a good producer of beautiful blue eggs. I just hatched 2 of her eggs, sired by a Golden Appenzeller Spitzhauben Rooster. I originally had her in the breeding pen with the Legbar roo, but she kept escaping so I decided to let her stay with the Spitz for this hatch. The other pullet stopped laying right when I decided to start collecting eggs to hatch, and this one stopped laying shortly thereafter.

I'm hoping to breed my 2 remaining pullets with the above rooster sometime in 2021, once the girls start laying again.

Here are the 2 pullets I let go...




They were laying beautiful eggs, but I was worried about their longevity in a free range flock with hawks around, given their impaired vision. How would oversized crest and/or super floppy-in-the-eyes comb rate, relative to breed standard? The lighter one also disqualified herself because she didn't autosex like she should have. I thought she was a cockerel for the longest time.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Here is a video of the flock when the Legbars were 7 months old. The first Legbar cockerel out of the door is one I decided not to keep. He wasn't respected by the girls and never learned to crow right. It was a very strange and annoying sound he made, even thought he was otherwise very sweet. He had more black in his tail and belly. The one I kept (pictures in prior post) comes out at :35 in the video, followed by my favorite Legbar pullet (at :46) and then the 2nd Legbar pullet, which has turned out to be a better egg producer (at 1:01, in the background).

Here is the 2nd pullet, more recently. She's a good producer of beautiful blue eggs. I just hatched 2 of her eggs, sired by a Golden Appenzeller Spitzhauben Rooster. I originally had her in the breeding pen with the Legbar roo, but she kept escaping so I decided to let her stay with the Spitz for this hatch. The other pullet stopped laying right when I decided to start collecting eggs to hatch, and this one stopped laying shortly thereafter.
View attachment 2462615

I'm hoping to breed my 2 remaining pullets with the above rooster sometime in 2021, once the girls start laying again.

Here are the 2 pullets I let go...
View attachment 2462649View attachment 2462650

View attachment 2462652View attachment 2462653

They were laying beautiful eggs, but I was worried about their longevity in a free range flock with hawks around, given their impaired vision. How would oversized crest and/or super floppy-in-the-eyes comb rate, relative to breed standard? The lighter one also disqualified herself because she didn't autosex like she should have. I thought she was a cockerel for the longest time.

My pullets are all from Cackle as well and I did cull quite a few from the brooder out of my order of twenty for poor down patterns. I have found them to be excellent free ranging, we have a lot of hawks but they're alert and wary and the boys are exceptional at alerting the girls. (The boys have no real vision impairment issues, luckily, so they help a lot, but even the girls have only very modest crests which I find ideal.)

The major faults with the Cackle birds are short backs and high tail sets. The boys all have rather low wing set as well. I am line-breeding onto a lavender cockerel I acquired. He does share some of the same type faults, but not quite as extreme and I feel careful selection in each generation will bring improvement. I'll be hatching a LOT, growing out a LOT, and cycling through quite a few generations as quickly as possible to improve these.

 

[halefamily_flock]

My pullets are all from Cackle as well and I did cull quite a few from the brooder out of my order of twenty for poor down patterns. I have found them to be excellent free ranging, we have a lot of hawks but they're alert and wary and the boys are exceptional at alerting the girls. (The boys have no real vision impairment issues, luckily, so they help a lot, but even the girls have only very modest crests which I find ideal.)

The major faults with the Cackle birds are short backs and high tail sets. The boys all have rather low wing set as well. I am line-breeding onto a lavender cockerel I acquired. He does share some of the same type faults, but not quite as extreme and I feel careful selection in each generation will bring improvement. I'll be hatching a LOT, growing out a LOT, and cycling through quite a few generations as quickly as possible to improve these.

Thanks for the reply. Yes! The Legbars are great free rangers. I've curated a mixed flock with primary goal of being predator savvy for free ranging and the Legbars are second only to Spitzhaubens in that regard (which is saying a lot). I've found my current Legbar roo to be a better flock leader than any other I've had, including Dominiques and Spitzhaubens, who have all spent time as Rooster #1, for some period of time. The Legbar is very alert, tough when he needs to be to keep order in the flock, but only ever as tough as he needs to be, and otherwise very laid back and collaborative with the other roos and cockerels for any threats external to the flock.

 

[Bantambird]

Here is a video of the flock when the Legbars were 7 months old. The first Legbar cockerel out of the door is one I decided not to keep. He wasn't respected by the girls and never learned to crow right. It was a very strange and annoying sound he made, even thought he was otherwise very sweet. He had more black in his tail and belly. The one I kept (pictures in prior post) comes out at :35 in the video, followed by my favorite Legbar pullet (at :46) and then the 2nd Legbar pullet, which has turned out to be a better egg producer (at 1:01, in the background).

Here is the 2nd pullet, more recently. She's a good producer of beautiful blue eggs. I just hatched 2 of her eggs, sired by a Golden Appenzeller Spitzhauben Rooster. I originally had her in the breeding pen with the Legbar roo, but she kept escaping so I decided to let her stay with the Spitz for this hatch. The other pullet stopped laying right when I decided to start collecting eggs to hatch, and this one stopped laying shortly thereafter.
View attachment 2462615

I'm hoping to breed my 2 remaining pullets with the above rooster sometime in 2021, once the girls start laying again.

Here are the 2 pullets I let go...
View attachment 2462649View attachment 2462650

View attachment 2462652View attachment 2462653

They were laying beautiful eggs, but I was worried about their longevity in a free range flock with hawks around, given their impaired vision. How would oversized crest and/or super floppy-in-the-eyes comb rate, relative to breed standard? The lighter one also disqualified herself because she didn't autosex like she should have. I thought she was a cockerel for the longest time.

Here is a video of the flock when the Legbars were 7 months old. The first Legbar cockerel out of the door is one I decided not to keep. He wasn't respected by the girls and never learned to crow right. It was a very strange and annoying sound he made, even thought he was otherwise very sweet. He had more black in his tail and belly. The one I kept (pictures in prior post) comes out at :35 in the video, followed by my favorite Legbar pullet (at :46) and then the 2nd Legbar pullet, which has turned out to be a better egg producer (at 1:01, in the background).

Here is the 2nd pullet, more recently. She's a good producer of beautiful blue eggs. I just hatched 2 of her eggs, sired by a Golden Appenzeller Spitzhauben Rooster. I originally had her in the breeding pen with the Legbar roo, but she kept escaping so I decided to let her stay with the Spitz for this hatch. The other pullet stopped laying right when I decided to start collecting eggs to hatch, and this one stopped laying shortly thereafter.
View attachment 2462615

I'm hoping to breed my 2 remaining pullets with the above rooster sometime in 2021, once the girls start laying again.

Here are the 2 pullets I let go...
View attachment 2462649View attachment 2462650

View attachment 2462652View attachment 2462653

They were laying beautiful eggs, but I was worried about their longevity in a free range flock with hawks around, given their impaired vision. How would oversized crest and/or super floppy-in-the-eyes comb rate, relative to breed standard? The lighter one also disqualified herself because she didn't autosex like she should have. I thought she was a cockerel for the longest time.

Your keeper cock has a lot of white on his tail. His barring is not very good. His crest could be a bit better defined. He carries himself well and is sure of himself, so that's good. I like the shape of his comb and the number of points, but I don't like how it flops. His high tail makes his back appear shorter than it is. His feet are outstanding. Beak looks good, wattles hang nicely. He's definitely useable, but you should be sure to pair him with hens that have lower tail angles and no white tail feathers. Look for hens with straight combs to try for cockerels who inherit straight combs. Modest crests are great, as long as they have crests. Overall, have fun and enjoy your flock!

 

[halefamily_flock]

Your keeper cock has a lot of white on his tail. His barring is not very good. His crest could be a bit better defined. He carries himself well and is sure of himself, so that's good. I like the shape of his comb and the number of points, but I don't like how it flops. His high tail makes his back appear shorter than it is. His feet are outstanding. Beak looks good, wattles hang nicely. He's definitely useable, but you should be sure to pair him with hens that have lower tail angles and no white tail feathers. Look for hens with straight combs to try for cockerels who inherit straight combs. Modest crests are great, as long as they have crests. Overall, have fun and enjoy your flock!

I appreciate the detailed feedback! Neither of my Legbar hens has any white in the tail feathers and both have moderate crests. This may be a dumb question, but is it ever a good idea to use a different breed to correct for a particular trait? For example, here is an example of the barring on the son of my keeper cock Legbar, crossed with a Dominique hen.

I've recently discovered at least one of my Dominique hens is heterozygous for rose comb. I now have a very young single combed Legbar-Dominique cockerel.

I had assumed I wouldn't want to keep him, since the only reason for the cross was to create a new egg color for my rainbow. Depending on how his comb & crest turn out, would it be advantageous to cross him back to a Legbar hen to try to improve barring and straighten the comb, over a few generations? I'm not in any hurry and have been having fun with genetics experiments.

 

[duluthralphie]

I appreciate the detailed feedback! Neither of my Legbar hens has any white in the tail feathers and both have moderate crests. This may be a dumb question, but is it ever a good idea to use a different breed to correct for a particular trait? For example, here is an example of the barring on the son of my keeper cock Legbar, crossed with a Dominique hen.
View attachment 2464118

I've recently discovered at least one of my Dominique hens is heterozygous for rose comb. I now have a very young single combed Legbar-Dominique cockerel.
View attachment 2464138
I had assumed I wouldn't want to keep him, since the only reason for the cross was to create a new egg color for my rainbow. Depending on how his comb & crest turn out, would it be advantageous to cross him back to a Legbar hen to try to improve barring and straighten the comb, over a few generations? I'm not in any hurry and have been having fun with genetics experiments.

That bird is most likely the result of a cross between a single comb like a legbar and a rose comb..

Ask me how I know?

 

[halefamily_flock]

That bird is most likely the result of a cross between a single comb like a legbar and a rose comb..

Ask me how I know?

Yes. They are both the result of Legbar roo over rose-combed Dominique hen. The little guy is how we found out one of our Dominique hens is heterozygous for rose comb.

 

[duluthralphie]

Yes. They are both the result of Legbar roo over rose-combed Dominique hen. The little guy is how we found out one of our Dominique hens is heterozygous for rose comb.
View attachment 2464316

I thought when you called it a Dominque you thought it was “pure”. Sorry for telling what you knew.