Cream Legbars

[Debs55]

Here are some more pics of my chicks. So did I get ripped off? No eyeliner really, no V and no distinct chipmunk pattern really?

Those look very male to me...

 

[iPickYupik]

Those look very male to me...  

Ugh! Do I say something to the breeder? Do I suck it up and know better next time, if there is a next time? I know she's sold all that she had and I paid pullet price for these. Do I let them grow out and hope they turn out to be pullets? She said she had 9 pullets and 1 roo that she was selling and then keeping a few back for herself. It turned out that she bought these as hatching eggs and didn't have other CCLs.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Ugh! Do I say something to the breeder? Do I suck it up and know better next time, if there is a next time? I know she's sold all that she had and I paid pullet price for these. Do I let them grow out and hope they turn out to be pullets? She said she had 9 pullets and 1 roo that she was selling and then keeping a few back for herself. It turned out that she bought these as hatching eggs and didn't have other CCLs.

Ugh... yeah, those look like boys to me too... maybe she mixed up the cockerel and pullet markings herself, an honest mistake maybe?

Sounds very off to have only 1 extra cockerel and 9 pullets, especially after keeping some back... idk, just my 2 cents... :/

Sorry for your luck...

 

[ChicKat]

Ugh! Do I say something to the breeder? Do I suck it up and know better next time, if there is a next time? I know she's sold all that she had and I paid pullet price for these. Do I let them grow out and hope they turn out to be pullets? She said she had 9 pullets and 1 roo that she was selling and then keeping a few back for herself. It turned out that she bought these as hatching eggs and didn't have other CCLs.

Yes, you should say something...and you should be refunded in full. If I sold a chicken as a breed and it turned out to be NOT -- I would get a refund to the person ASAP.

The Cream Legbar Club is trying to preserve, promote, protect and educate people about the breed. -- What if people who sold to your seller (the hatching eggs) -- screwed up - and a spare non-CL rooster got in with their CL hen? - then there is a string of people who think they have CL and they don't. -- Hopefully your seller can get a refund from whomever sold the hatching eggs. --

so sorry for the birds you got. :O(

Everyone who has a thought on this please chime in on ways you think that the breed integrity can be maintained when people who aren't selling what is exactly a Cream Legbar, as a Cream Legbar -- pull shenanigans like this? And I am not saying it couldn't be innocent mistakes all along the lines....I just wish we could have some protections for the buyers. Something beyond Caveat Emptor.... is that too Idealistic?

In another thead - this came up -- so I will put it here FWIW...some people are selling 'creme legbars' and some are selling 'crested cream legbars' and some are selling 'cream crested legbars' -- none of these titles belong to the breed we are developing here in the USA. Are they just creative individualists? Or is there a plot out there to derail the breed and they can say -- well I never said it was a Cream Legbar -- I said it was a creme legbar or a crested legbar............ see what I'm saying.

 

[duluthralphie]

Your saying there is a difference between "Cream Legbar" and "Crested Cream Legbar"?

Personally, I think that is a little elitism or snobbish to say they have to be called "Cream Legbars" and cannot be called "Crested Cream Legbars". I understand your goals, and I agree you do not want the mess to occur that has with aruacuanas, americanas, aruarca's and the other million ways people sell knockoffs. But just putting the adjective "crested" in front of Cream legbars, is not going to pollute the birds. After all they are crested, even if the crest is a tad small on some.

 

[tdhenson86]

All your boys' wings are carried too low. You may want to raise your roost so that the muscles get better use.

No 1 has better barring on hackle, saddle and wing bay. Cannot tell on the breast. Tail not as much white as the 3 and 4. Overall barring is uneven. Cannot tell on comb. Nice yellow legs. Back looks okay and tail angle too in these photos.

No 2 has poor barring on saddle and hackle and secondary feathers. Overall messy barring. Tail looks high but no white and well barred and back looks short. Comb would be severely floppy. Breast looks good.

No 3 is dark barred. Secondary feathers lack white barred areas. Tail is high back is short. His breast is lacking.

No 4. A lot of white in tail. Not barred in secondary feathers. Barring does not seem as messy as others. His toes look crooked and he appears a bit stilted in the last photo but he looks nice for size.

All their ear lobes are too red and appear a bit yellow.

I'd use 1 and 4. Depending on size I'd go for No 1 and the slightly better barring but maybe No 4 for type as i cannot tell type on No 1.But that may change going forward. The backs and tails on the other two I would not breed forward If I had other options.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! That detailed explanation of each male was exactly what I was looking for! Number two has better barring than the picture shows (he's the most flighty so it's hard to get a good picture), but he also has, by far, the worst tail angle. Number four doesn't have a crooked toe, but it does appear that way in one of the pictures and he does have a brother from this hatch with a crooked toe. So, that's a good thing for me to watch out for! Thanks! I'm hearing more and more that body type is the most important part and then to worry about coloring. I'll be keeping number one and four and doing test breeding with each. I'll also be doing a better job of taking pictures and documenting.

Thank you for all of the comments and helpful suggestions!!!! I am so thankful for this thread!

 

[chicken pickin]

Your saying there is a difference between "Cream Legbar" and "Crested Cream Legbar"?

Personally, I think that is a little elitism or snobbish to say they have to be called "Cream Legbars" and cannot be called "Crested Cream Legbars". I understand your goals, and I agree you do not want the mess to occur that has with aruacuanas, americanas, aruarca's and the other million ways people sell knockoffs. But just putting the adjective "crested" in front of Cream legbars, is not going to pollute the birds. After all they are crested, even if the crest is a tad small on some.

This breed used to be called Crested Cream Legbars, but that has since officially been changed and they are simply Cream Legbars and that is it. I believe the Crested part of the name was dropped because ALL Cream Legbar are to be crested. By calling them Crested Cream Legbar it might give some the assumption that there are two varieties crested and non-crested, and that just isn't so. I do believe if you are raising a breed and breeding a breed you should use the appropriate name for the breed. I don't think asking people to use the correct name is snobbish, I think it is about teaching people to be knowledgeable and correct.

 

[duluthralphie]

Who changed the name from Crested Cream legbars to Cream Legbars?

I guess we will just have to disagree on if there is any damage or reason to just call them Cream Legbars or Crested Cream Legbars.. I raise registered Labrador Retrievers, I sell and refer to them as Labs, it has not hurt the breed any. There are even a ton of mixed breed dogs referred to as "labs" when they may only be 1/4 Labrador retriever or less.

I will still refer to my "Cream Legbars" as "Crested Cream Legbars" or even "creamettes" (for the girls). It is not going to hurt the quality of my birds. As the old line goes " Would a rose by any other name, still smell as sweet?"

I understand your point, I just disagree with it and no disrespect is meant.. Thanks

 

[ChicKat]

Your saying there is a difference between "Cream Legbar" and "Crested Cream Legbar"?

Personally, I think that is a little elitism or snobbish to say they have to be called "Cream Legbars" and cannot be called "Crested Cream Legbars". I understand your goals, and I agree you do not want the mess to occur that has with aruacuanas, americanas, aruarca's and the other million ways people sell knockoffs. But just putting the adjective "crested" in front of Cream legbars, is not going to pollute the birds. After all they are crested, even if the crest is a tad small on some.

You are right in a lot of respects....I appreciate your views...

consider this as well, partly it is like a trademark too. -- and trademarks are covered by very strict regulations..... Not only that, but there are folks that have Cream Legbars without crests.... so are they Cream Legbars at all? Good question IMO.

If someone didn't know anything about the breed and the term Crested Cream Legbar (which they were once called BTW) was encouraged - they could think that there are Crested Cream Legbars and Cream Legbars (i.e. non-crested) but there aren't. LOL -- I'm like you in that I think that casual is good, and chicken snobbery is more negative. Think of this though, duluthralphie, there are folks who are working really diligently with this breed in hopes of getting it accepted by the APA - and have been doing so for a number of years. There are people out there in the selling world who are saying things like 'i'm breeding crested cream legbars to the standard" -- well - sorry, there isn't a standard to my knowledge that says 'crested cream (or variations of cream such as creme, creamy etc) legbar'. So it would be really interesting to see what standard they are breeding toward wouldn't it? LOL Now they could be rugged individualists, they could just be mis-informed, they could be changing the name so they can sell any old thing to the buyer, who knows. I rather wish that the breed HAD been crested Legbar rather than Cream Legbar -- but that is a whole different can of worms. If I know something bout the breed, If I am raising them, if I am Selling them -- shouldn't I use the correct name? I think I should. ;O)

If it is stepping on toes, sorry to the toes, but I have more respect for the ones who are working to promote the breed for long term preservation - than I have for people who are hatching a lot of eggs, doing a lot of bragging, and pocketing some cash - meanwhile possibly ripping off buyers. JMO

On the other hand -- your sense of humor and the variations of Cream legbar are brilliant and funny and entertaining -- but I don't think you are selling your diamond crusted hatching eggs just year are you? LOL And last word for now -- people working to get APA acceptance do have to work by the APA guidlines -- and settling on just one name for the breed is part of that.

end of rant ...maybe.

 

[ChicKat]

Who changed the name from Crested Cream legbars to Cream Legbars?

I guess we will just have to disagree on if there is any damage or reason to just call them Cream Legbars or Crested Cream Legbars.. I raise registered Labrador Retrievers, I sell and refer to them as Labs, it has not hurt the breed any. There are even a ton of mixed breed dogs referred to as "labs" when they may only be 1/4 Labrador retriever or less.

I will still refer to my "Cream Legbars" as "Crested Cream Legbars" or even "creamettes" (for the girls). It is not going to hurt the quality of my birds. As the old line goes " Would a rose by any other name, still smell as sweet?"

I understand your point, I just disagree with it and no disrespect is meant.. Thanks

aha - your post came in while I was writing.

What if the AKC hadn't yet accepted Labs -- would it make a difference if people were inventing other names for them - like friendly family dogs, - big dogs etc. -- Wouldn't it become confusing and more difficult to get acceptance.

HEY- this is the USA and you can do exactly what you wish. --

however, it may perhaps be more helpful to the breed to call them Cream Legbars...... just because it is correct. The name was changed by the Brits who invented the breed etc.... 'why they changed it, I can't say, people just like it better that way' (from an old song...Istanbul was Constantanoble, la la la)