Cream Legbars

[WHmarans]

I would check with someone that REALLY knows how long it would live.   The lady with MG thought it would be a year too but the State and the Vets all assured her 6 months would be fine.   NOT THAT I AM SAYING 6 MONTH.... but just get that info from someone that really should know and not the internet.   I use Oxine on EVERYTHING.   Love the stuff.  I would PRESSURE wash and the clean everything with Oxine.... REGULARLY. 

I had a roo that got Mareks (I think) and he survived but was lame.  No one else got it ever.  The only reason I know it was Mareks his eyes changed to gray.... and the lame thing too.  I did research it some and know that birds that survive pass on resistance to the chicks... that is good.

Yeah I called around locally and our local supposed bird vet... The only one that would see chickens did not know much about it though it is certainly in flocks in the area so time for me to resort to Experts elsewhere ... Probably through the Internet. First thing to do us get back a necropsy to confirm.

 

[Laingcroft]

The history of Auto-sexing breed is that the stuff coming out of Cambridge were NOT true to the type of the foundation breeds. The Cambar for example being the first of the auto-sexing breeds was accepted with an SOP that required 8lb cocks, white shanks and feet, and red ear lobes, even though the Campine SOP was for 6lb cocks, slate/blue shanks and feet, and white ear lobes. They were obviously not breeding to the type of the Campine when they created the Cambar, but rather taking the most vigorous and strong birds from every cross to take advantage of the good qualities of both breeds and arriving at the end of the project that was a new breed being neither Campine not barred Rock, but rather a blend of the two making it a Cambar. The same was true for the Legbar. They apparently were not breeding to the Leghorn type (even if they did use a lot of out crosses to Leghorns to increase egg production or used the Leghorn type as their model when considering what a good laying breed should be built like) but rather were keeping the strongest birds from every cross and retaining good qualities from all the foundation breeds not to create an auto-sexing Leghorn, but rather a new breed that was neither Leghorn nor Barred Rock but a Legbar.

I don't feel our aim is for an auto-sexing Leghorn that lays colorful eggs. I feel the Legbar is a unique breed and deserves being preserved and breed to it own standard not breed to the Leghorn standard.

I don't have all of the documents Gary may have (which I would like to see cited in our Club web pages unless they are already posted on the Clubhouse site which I have yet to check out) but I see something quite different in Punnett;s paper on the Legbar. He chose Leghorns, specifically Brown Leghorns, to test the effect of barring on chipmunk down colors (e+) which are different from the Campine/bar chick down colors based on brown (eb). His main concern seems to be the type of plumage in the Leghorns as opposed to the physical type, but in always crossing back to the Leghorn instead of crossing siblings, he increased the percentage of Leghorn blood which would therefore have fixed the Legbar type very close to the standard Leghorn type, along with the barred and cream influence on plumage colors.

In Punnett's own words:

"More recently Fisher (1935) showed that the barring factor behaves similarly with regard to the brown striping down of Gallus bankiva, while Hagedorn (1935, 1936) has published briefly in connexion with the formation f auto-sexing breeds founded on Barnvelders and Leghorns. The general principle underlying the formation of such breeds has been discussed in more detail by Pease (1936). The present paper records some further experiments of a similar nature on the brown-striped down of hte Brown Leghorn." This clearly shows the Brown Leghorn was chosen to experiment with the brown striped chick down combined with the barring gene for autosexing.

A Danish strain of Leghorn was chosen "because in that country it is a favourite breed and has been brought to a high pitch of excellence both for hardiness and egg production."

And "As might be expected from a breed based upon the Brown Leghorn, the Legbar shows a marked sexual dimorphism in the plumage." Again, he was focused on the plumage not what a good layer should look like.

As for weights, the British SOP (can be found in the beginning of the Cream Legbar Working Standard of Perfection thread) acceptable weights range between 2.70-3.40kg (6-7lb) for males and 2-2.70kg (4-6lb) for females. We can always revise up or down from the 6 lb hens and 7 lb cocks within those parameters.

The weights for my hens, pullets and cockerel have been posted previously. My mature (non-crested GFF) hens weighed in around 6 lbs (5.80 and 5.93 lbs.) last weekend and they will be 2 YO in March. For Niclandia, their pictures are posted below. Sorry, they are not the best pictures. For reference, the top hen is standing on one of the 2x4 studs that frame the coop's chicken door

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
she looks close to 5 pounds, I would need a pic showing the scale and weight before I could give you a cookie...

 

[jerryse]

Yeah I called around locally and our local supposed bird vet... The only one that would see chickens did not know much about it though it is certainly in flocks in the area so time for me to resort to Experts elsewhere ... Probably through the Internet. First thing to do us get back a necropsy to confirm.

I will tell you my experience with Marecks . I never had any survivors. I found that if you do not hatch any for 1 year the virus is gone from the environment . I have not had a case in about 15 + years. I do not vaccinate. I hope this is helpful info . For the MG question Mycoplasma Gallo spectrum and I may have misspelled that.

 

[ChicKat]

There are a lot of myths and suppositions about Marek's. Some time ago I started a BYC page with the objective of collecting facts/papers and also individual's approaches and experience with Marek's in their own flock.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

If you find some new research or get some new insights, it may be helpful to others if you put links there. The links to Ag sites and universities etc. are asked to be 'cited'.

For people's first-hand experiences and flock management approach - there is a place to enter your own first hand experience.

My belief is that Marek's is so in the air - that you cannot avoid it. The best approach is to raise chickens that are resistant. (That is better than vaccination for reasons you can find on that above link). My understanding of the incubation period is 12-weeks - not 4-weeks. It is possible to breed Marek's resistant chickens, there is no vertical transmission to the egg, and it would be nearly impossible to keep the air segregated from your flock.....

ETA Jerryse 15-years is a long time to go without it - so good for you. If you want to post your experience on that linked page, please do so there is space either at the bottom (click the pencil icon) or in the comments. And that goes for all who what to add their information to that Merek's page

 

[Laingcroft]

she looks close to 5 pounds, I would need a pic showing the scale and weight before I could give you a cookie...

Nuh-uh. I'm not posting our combined weight on the internet LOL. IF I can get her to stand still on a scale long enough to get a readable picture I will. If not, I'll just have to live without the cookie...

 

[WHmarans]

Nuh-uh.  I'm not posting our combined weight on the internet LOL.  IF I can get her to stand still on a scale long enough to get a readable picture I will.  If not, I'll just have to live without the cookie...

Wow nicalandia this cookie turned out to be just the right incentive to get more CL on the scale!

 

[nicalandia]

Wow nicalandia this cookie turned out to be just the right incentive to get more CL on the scale!

Thats right...

 

[WHmarans]

Thats right...

I can't get most of mine to stand on a scale they think my hands automatically dispense treats and will not leave me alone. So I put them in a canvas bag with handles and use a hanging fish scale as someone suggested to me. Then subtract the bag weight. They dont love it. The problem is photographic evidence is hard to produce that way. But it works.

 

[HaplessRunner]

When I first started hatching chicks last year, I vaccinated for Marek's. I was really concerned that they live and grow. But after doing a lot of reading about Marek's since then, I stopped vaccinating. The Marek's virus is everywhere in the environment. The exposure to it happens all the time. Usually, from what I have read, there usually is a breakdown in the resistance of a given chicken that opens the door for Marek's to become active in the weakened bird. In the case of chicks, usually they have not had sufficient time to develop their resistance.

If your chicks and chickens are healthy, eating well, and have not had an unusual stressor, you should be very unlikely to have a chicken come down with Marek's. Not that it cannot happen but it really should be unlikely. Remember they do need to get exposed to the environment. Using some garden soil, a piece of sod, or other natural environmental factor that a broody mama would expose the chicks to is good for them and helps them to develop the natural resistances they need to thrive. If I have a Marek's outbreak, I would cull the affected chickens, try to determine what caused their weakened condition, and make the necessary changes to minimize recurrence. Just my untrained two cents!