Crele?

[blackdotte]

Partridge is a meaningless hobby name, but Partridge Wyandottes etc are pencilled and eb Brown based. On the other hand Partridge O E Game hens are stippled and e+ Duckwing based.
David

 

[Chris09]

This is from-
Old English Game Bantams as Bred and Shown in the United States
Partridge
Beard (1983) describes his Partridge Old English:
The Partridge Old English Game bantam has been produced by replacing wild type gene in the Black Breasted Red with the partridge gene. The primary effect of this substitution shows up in the female, as the partridge female is no salmon-breasted but instead is straw colored, or light buff, around the outer edges, as in the shaft. Between the shaft and buff outer edging are two rather indistinct brownish markings, separated by buff, following the contour of the feather. The overall appearance is that of a primitive partridge pattern, as fanciers of the female body is quite similar to the Black Breasted Red, although the underlying partridge pattern seems to be more evident than stippling. Partridge males are much like Black Breasted Red males. The partridge gene came originally from the large Light Brahma.
Beard goes on to point how partridge (e-p) differs from wild type (e+) and (e-b) in down color.

Chris

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

The problem with that is that the E-alleles have been coded, and there is no e^p; I am pretty sure it is e^b. At one time 10 or more E-alleles were thought to exist; that has been disproven. Anyways, the E-alleles include only E (extended black), E^R (birchen), e^Wh (wheaten), e+ (wild-type) and e^b (brown). They are in the order of dominance, except that when melanizers are present e^Wh is the most recessive; when they are not it is dominant to wild-type.

 

[Henk69]

Quote:
I would say e^b is always the most recessive, and e^Wh is mostly recessive to e+ because of the ubiquitious melanizers present in our fowl.

 

[becky3086]

The experts are having a gentics spat, pull up a chair and LEARN, LEARN, LEARN! Sorry, I love it when they do this.

 

[TurtleFeathers]

You and me both Becky - this is the response I was hoping for!

Experts - carry on!

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Sonoran,
I trust what you say, it could be a typo in the book but it was (e-p) that they had in there.
Now I have a question.
You said "

the E-alleles include only E (extended black), E^R (birchen), e^Wh (wheaten), e+ (wild-type) and e^b (brown).

".
What about e^s (Speckled), e^bc or Buttercup and e^y (Recessive Wheaten)?

Chris​

 

[Vcomb]

Quote:
the duckwing stripe I refer to is located between the wing bow and the flights (the wing bow being that big color sheild on the shoulder). the wing triangle (also known as the wing bay) are the secondary flight feathers which in duckwings and wheatons create a triangle of color. in the crow wing colors this section are solid black (or blue or chocolate, depending).

while the e^b allele is brown and is responsible for the partridge color in wyandottes, brahmas, etc (and for the rare partridge old english bantams found in the U.S. which have already been discussed) The reason I brought up partridge and b.b. red being the same thing is that in the country of origin for the Old English bantam they have what are referred to as black breasted light reds and black brested reds, with the hens either being wheaton, clay, or partridge bred. The partridge bred birds are not e^b, they are e+ (as characterized by the striped chick down) which is what we refer to as b.b. red.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Sonoran,
I trust what you say, it could be a typo in the book but it was (e-p) that they had in there.
Now I have a question.
You said "

the E-alleles include only E (extended black), E^R (birchen), e^Wh (wheaten), e+ (wild-type) and e^b (brown).

".
What about e^s (Speckled), e^bc or Buttercup and e^y (Recessive Wheaten)?

Chris​

In the older literature, the brown gene or eb gene is called partridge or ep. For some reason the partridge allele was changed to the brown allele. I do not know why. Normally one researcher used one name and another researcher uses another name. Then they find out they are talking about the same gene and the name is changed so that every one is on the same page.


According to the older literature, there are 9 different genes that can be found at the E locus. They are Extended black (E), birchen (E^R), Dominant wheaten (e^wh), wild type e^+, brown (e^b), speckled ( e^s), butter cup (e^bc) and recessive wheaten (e^y). I have listed them in the order of dominance with E being the most dominant and recessive wheaten being the most recessive. Birchen is incompletely dominant to dominant wheaten and wild type. This order of dominance is based on down color and adult plumage. There are modifiers that can change the order of dominance. This is the phenotype explanation.

Research on the DNA level makes things a bit cloudy and not so well understood.

Tim

 

[Henk69]

e^b, e^s and e^bc are similar if not the same, also in order of dominance.

e^wh and e^y are both wheaten and were DNA sequenced. They have the same code.
I would not worry about differences between the two. One wheaten explains all.

There is also more than one birchen allele...

Carefoot also threw extended black and birchen on one heap. They are similar in effect.