Cubalaya Thread For Sharing Pics and Discussing Our Birds

[gallorojo]

I have at least 6-7 hens like this now.

 

[gallorojo]

Two pictures are same bird!!! They can change a lot as they age!!

 

[cubalaya]

Still have Cubalayas. Lots of colors including Spangled. Whites, Pyles, Spangleds, Black Breasted Reds, Blue Breasted Reds, working on Ginger Reds. Working on egg size, rate of lay and quality, as well as size of birds. Nice to see others still have some birds. I’ll try to post some pictures.

Hey Chris, long time no see. Did you ever write that history on cubalayas? I still have my whites, some blues, a self blue project and a couple blacks. Sold my black flock and my wheatons. Still breeding the old Manuel Reynolds strain of Pakistan asils. Have some very good Brazilians. Glad you stuck with them.

 

[gallorojo]

I have never written out a complete history of the breed. I do still have all of the information. The issue is that the accounts I was given contradict each other, and historical accounts as well. I can’t figure out how to put the information out there in a way that is respectful and honors the contributions of those who shared their stories. I respect all the people who helped me and don’t desire to have anyone seem poorly informed or dishonest. I believe the breed to have been a mixed bag from the very beginning, with few breeders, and many many other breeds have been added over the years to keep them going. Some of the strains are so distinctive they are nearly different breeds. It’s a challenging issue. I’ve considered writing a short self published book, and having it be more my thoughts and theories with some historical references and not much modern information. I have worked with this breed long enough now that I definitely have my beliefs and ideas about things. Need more time !!!

 

[gallorojo]

I agree with Cubalaya. Two years in a row I bought Ideal Hatchery's Cubalayas since I couldn't find any anywhere else. Those two years were a complete waste. The chicks were extremely delicate and the few that did make it were small and barely looked like Cubalayas. Some people may have luck with them, or their stock may have improved since I purchased, but if they are even half as bad as what I got, they aren't worth the time. All I did was waste two years waiting around for nothing. In the end, I drove halfway across the country and bought a starter flock, then built up from there.

I would have saved a lot of money by spending $40 per started chick from a breeder rather than $3 a chick from a hatchery.

Cuba, I have a question for you on your blacks (which I may have asked someone about before, but I can't remember completely). I spoke to someone who had some beautiful BB Reds and noticed that their roosters were getting white in the tails. She didn't think it had anything to do with the mottled gene and thought it was a protein issue. The idea being that the feathers grew so quickly that if the bird didn't have a protein boost, there would be missing patches of pigment. She found that by feeding bits of hamburger as a treat it reduced/removed the white during the next molt.

Have you, or any other breeder, noticed this?

The white in the males tails is unfortunately all too common in Cubalayas. Unfortunately because this is a disqualification for showing. I think that’s a shame, as personally I find the white attractive and a trait in common with many Gamefowl and Longtail breeds. I have heard the theory that the white in the tail relates to spangled/mottled. After many years of observation, I don’t believe that this is the case. I believe that the white in the tail is an unknown dilution factor. I’ve seen the exact same thing in Asils, Shamo, GaNoi, Thai, Yokohama crosses, and American Gamefowl. It starts usually in the second year at the base of the tail and gradually spreads, with the tails in really old birds becoming very white. I’ve only ever bred a few cocks that didn’t have some white in the tail by 2-3 years old. I think the gene for this is the same or similar to the dilution factor described by Brian Reeder in his article on Yokohama color genetics . https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Phoen/ReederRedShGenetics.html

 

[gallorojo]

When I first got into chickens I spent a long time believing that they were done by the age of two. So long, in fact, that I'm still pleasantly shocked at seeing and hearing about hens that go double, triple, and beyond their assumed years of production.

Edit: For any breeders out there, what breeds have you crossed into your Cubalaya lines? Or what breeds would you consider crossing in if you had the opportunity? I know there has been a lot of controversy about incorporating Sumatra blood; what about Yokohamas? Cornish? Malays and Asils seem to be the popular choice. I was wondering if anything else was being woven back into the breed.

I’ve found Cubalayas to be decent layers for about 2-5 years. I can usually expect a few eggs from a hen until she’s maybe 6-9 years old. By decent I mean 75 eggs a year for 3-4 year old hens. All of mine over all the years start laying right about 20 weeks old. My original birds had extremely small eggs with poor quality. Currently all but one or two females of mine lay good quality eggs and most are much larger than when I started.
As to outcrossing- really, a lot can work, but some choices are better than others. The standard choice is an oriental Gamefowl breed. This does have a lot to recommend it, and I have used Thai and Asil extensively myself in this regard. You will get better heads, better mass/bone/muscle, hardiness, size, generally lower tails, calmer temperaments. You can get them back to pretty good type in just a few generations. The negative aspects of this method is reducing eggs per year, pearl eye, and sometimes it’s hard to get a really correct lobster tail combined with extremely hard feathered birds. Some other things I’ve used are Plymouth Rocks and Cornish. I discarded those lines, but they were not terrible by any means. The Rock crosses improved egg size, quality, and production immensely, but type was hard to get back. Cornish work great, but the show type are terrible layers, and remain so for generations down the line. Currently I’m working with some lines crossed with Commercial Broiler, and American Gamefowl. Both have produced excellent layers of quite large excellent eggs even when 3/4 Cubalaya. Both have also produced much better muscle in the offspring, even several generations removed. It’s been very hard to get the tails back in these birds though. I would try your best to use birds with white legs, red ears, and red eyes if possible. The Asil, Broiler, and American Gamefowl I used all had white legs. I would not use Longtail breeds if you can help it. The Longtail breeds have a variety of serious genetic deleterious factors that result in small, weak, scrawny birds with suppressed immune systems. Some of the old Cubalaya strains I am quite certain had some sort of Longtail breeds crossed in way back when, and this is where most of the negative factors arise from. I have counted feathers on my birds before, and the better Cubalayas typically have extra tail feathers, a trait usually seen only in Longtail breeds, although the Thai I used had extra feathers too. Hope you can find some that helpful.

 

[gallorojo]

Few more pictures

 

[cubalaya]

The white in the males tails is unfortunately all too common in Cubalayas. Unfortunately because this is a disqualification for showing. I think that’s a shame, as personally I find the white attractive and a trait in common with many Gamefowl and Longtail breeds. I have heard the theory that the white in the tail relates to spangled/mottled. After many years of observation, I don’t believe that this is the case. I believe that the white in the tail is an unknown dilution factor. I’ve seen the exact same thing in Asils, Shamo, GaNoi, Thai, Yokohama crosses, and American Gamefowl. It starts usually in the second year at the base of the tail and gradually spreads, with the tails in really old birds becoming very white. I’ve only ever bred a few cocks that didn’t have some white in the tail by 2-3 years old. I think the gene for this is the same or similar to the dilution factor described by Brian Reeder in his article on Yokohama color genetics . https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Phoen/ReederRedShGenetics.html

On the blacks, they were created by doc Everett using white cubalayas. This is where the white comes from on these although after years of breeding i had one last year with no red in hackle and only one white feather in tail after one year. The wheatons were a disappointment to me after grading and breeding generations and finally getting them where i wanted, i saw the faults come back in later generations

 

[cubalaya]

I don't think the white is a protein problem. If you have noticed other oriental gamefowl, many breeds have white in the wings and tail. I think it was bred into them in the beginning and it is something that keeps coming back. Its fine for an asil to have some white in wings and tail. Anyway over the years i have found the whites to be the best and most productive and i know mine have a little shamo graded in way back. The red pyles were super healthy. The brown reds were prone to respiratory problems. The duckwings had slow feather growth. The blacks had a few deaths like Marek's in the first few years i had them but they were productive. Wheatons were pretty productive but faults kept coming back

 

[troyer]

Still have Cubalayas. Lots of colors including Spangled. Whites, Pyles, Spangleds, Black Breasted Reds, Blue Breasted Reds, working on Ginger Reds. Working on egg size, rate of lay and quality, as well as size of birds. Nice to see others still have some birds. I’ll try to post some pictures.

Good to have you back on here. You have done quite a bit in the last several years. Are you planning on keeping the spangles going? Good work! How do the Pyles look?