Cubalaya Thread For Sharing Pics and Discussing Our Birds

[adubsroit]

Off the top of my friend's head, and take into consideration that currently he's texting me this info as he is out at a bar, the flock's bloodlines: Terry Britt (a judge), Rose (couldn't recall last name) and one other man who is out of Pennsylvania. These birds will be coming out of Northern CA. They have not been shown much from what I can tell, our friend at some point to focus on his Golden Sebrights, which I am told are quite nice from what I am told (my primary focus is Chanteclers, Saxony ducks and Turkeys (slates and Beltsville Whites)). I'm sort of playing a game of telephone here as I was told by my boyfriend, by way of the friend, that there were 4 or 5 lines. Now I am being told only 4 though he cannot apparently recall the 4th line.

Anywho, these are the best pictures I can find of the birds - stole them off his Facebook

- first off, a pair:

A male (they'd be cocks by now, but could be a cockerel in this picture):

 

[Cuban Longtails]

I remember those photos, very nice guy. I had some communications with him at one time, might have been last year. Good luck with them; looks like you are getting a good start!

 

[gallorojo]

I have seen those exact 2 pictures somewhere else, and it was not anybody's facebook page. Not sure where-either here, another forum, or some sort of sale or auction thing.

Regarding the female neck striping-it cannot be Columbian. Columbian is dominant, and even one copy(het/split) would remove the black from the BB Red males. I am not claiming to be a genetics expert, but, I have done A LOT of crosses, so, I do know a lot from experience. Plain, pure Wheaten on it's own, does not hide or minimize black, at least certainly not in the males. Exactly how the black is removed from buff birds is still not known for sure, it has to do with Columbian plus Dark Brown plus Dilute plus Mahogany.

My feeling is that the female neck markings are something like Pg and Ml, pattern gene plus melaniser? That is my best guess, anyway. That would give you the striping/lacing, plus the darker cinnamon shade. I think...

If and when you get these birds, please post some current pictures!!

 

[adubsroit]

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These birds are now with Dan Wake, but like I said: he doesn't show them. I belive he may have breed some, but his Sebrights are his focus (and it shows). I can speak with great confidence in the fact that those pictures, the first one for sure, were taken on his property from what I can understand. The set-up of the buildings and fence is exactly what he has on his property. Oh well, soon enough (later in spring or early summer) they will be relocated to the foothills of NE Oregon.

I haven't really seen what the black markings look like, but check this out - lots of examples of melanisers and pattern explanations: http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html#gen_mut_pheomelanin

This does not completely apply to this convo, but it makes sense: "As an elementary exercise, let’s ‘build’ a white chicken. We can start with wild-type background, e+, and require our bird to have two copies of this gene. We can suppress the red in the chicken by adding the silver gene, S, which has the effect of changing red to white. Black is suppressed (changed to white) by the dominant white gene, I, however this gene is ‘leaky’ (see the table for comments) and allows black specks through. A good ‘helper’ gene in this situation is the Columbian gene, Co, since it is a restrictor of black. Although this set of genes is not the only set that will yield a white chicken, it is one of the ways a white chicken can be obtained." Maybe the expression of black stripes has something to do with what sort of white Cubalayas in the states carry.

"e^Wh, Dominant Wheaten Without Columbian (Co) Wheaten down is a light cream for both sex-linked silver and gold. One cannot distinguish silver from gold with any accuracy on dominant wheaten. Heterozygotes can have varying amounts of striping. Some New Hamps have light reddish stripes on their backs at hatch. This may be due to heterozygousicity or some other modifiers in these lines. With Co wheaten downs are easily sexable. There is a high degree of difference between silver and gold wheaten down when Columbian is present. This is why commercial white-tailed reds have dominant Wheaten and Columbian."

"ey, Recessive Wheaten Sometimes pictured as being yellow but more brown than e^Wh. Both are said to be cream in color. Recessive wheatens are often called dark wheatens because the adult females have more stippling on their backs than dominant wheaten females usually have. " On the same subject, same site different page: "Recessive wheaten - Female: resembles dominant wheaten with more coarse black stippling on breast and back. Males are wild type."


Source: http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page2.html
Source: http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html

 

[gallorojo]

Here is what the black markings look like-

 

[saladin]

I've never seen a Cubalaya hen that doesn't have them and I've seen a lot of hens. Sam B, DaveK, and Linda Bayliss have told me that they have seen one without it, but only one or two in their lifetimes.... that is what I would call an exception!

 

[adubsroit]

If the black markings were related to an e-locus allele couldn't it with time be bred against? I understand the difficulty too, especially because it seems there may be a need for out-crossing. Genetics to me is still sort of mind boggling and I hope no one takes what I am saying as out of turn or rude. I'm just a 23 year old who really wants to understand these birds. These birds are like science experiments, and been reading a bunch of Grant Brereton's stuff so the idea of trying to figure it all out is just encouraged with a new variety.

Could it be that Cubalayas are primarily recessive wheaten here in the U.S.?? Again, I am new to the breed, but with other birds (i.e. Shetland Geese) scientist expect that the breeds genetic integrity isn't being helped by a diverse, or large enough gene pool state side (though in Europe they're doing fine I suspect). This idea just comes off the idea from reading a bunch of sites and breeders info on the fact that Cubalayas were once extremely rare in the U.S.

 

[adubsroit]

Okay, update: the birds I am getting will be of Terry Britt (Oklahoma judge) and Rose. Is that good??

 

[Cuban Longtails]

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Yes, Rose's birds are out of Britt & Zook.

Cubakid on this forum is young Mr. Rose

 

[Cuban Longtails]

I don't believe they are recessive wheaten and they certainly have a very strong phenotype, based on the crosses (accidental & purposefull) that I've had.

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