de-worming chickens with goat safeguard(fenbendazole)

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by chooniecat, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. BlacksheepCardigans

    BlacksheepCardigans Chillin' With My Peeps

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    There's a huge difference between using something off-label in a way that has decades of support behind it and using something that has never been researched in an animal. That's all I'm saying.

    I just did a one-minute search and found five universities (MSU, Kentucky, U Hawaii, Vermont, and NH) all giving owners specific directions TO use fenbendazole in poultry and exactly how to dose it. It's been studied in poultry for at least thirty years. There's a huge body of research that lays out exactly what it metabolizes into in chickens, how long those metabolites stay, and (this is key) what the acceptable residue is for eggs and meat. The USDA, in other words, knows perfectly well that it's being used in poultry.

    Heck, carbaryl (Sevin) isn't registered for use in poultry - even though its number-one use in the US is as a poultry miticide, it's used in all the commercial houses, and it's been studied since the 50s.

    Ivermectin, moxidectin, flubendazole, levamisole, hygromycin, pyrantel, on and on and on - good research, established doses, history of study in chickens. Eprinomectin - nothing. Studied very well in cows, fantastic in cows because they partition it from the milk. No research in chickens.

    Registering something for use in a commercial animal takes looooaaads of money, and for compounds that aren't either novel or expensive it's not worth it for the pharma companies to spend. Doesn't mean it hasn't been used or have veterinary support or Ag college support and extremely good data about efficacy and safety.

    I very much doubt that Eprinex residue in eggs or meat is going to hurt an average human, because an average human could take the bottle of Eprinex and swallow a teaspoon and it's not going to hurt them. Would worm them really well, but wouldn't make them sick. So I am sure you can use it and give it to your chickens at doses ranging from too small to gigantically too large and nobody's going to die. However, that doesn't mean there actually is a recommended dosage supported by research, OR that there is no withdrawal time for chickens. The no-withdrawal-time data has ONLY been studied in cows, which metabolize things differently because they're not birds.

    Saying "Eprinex should work - my dosage would be a guess, though" is completely fine and accurate. I'm just not sure it's a good idea to say to people on a message board who trust answers to be the right ones that 1) There's a known safe or effective dosage, or 2) There's no withdrawal time.
     
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  2. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Quote:I agree with what you state above. Universities such as MSU etc...recommend off label wormers which is great, but are not approved by the FDA "legally," as wazine is. I doubt commercial operations use wazine because their chickens are caged and dont live past 8 months if that. I have used eprinex with no issues at all as have many others here, but I understand what you're saying. Not to get off track but as chicken owners we have to use whatever is available to us to promote good health in the flock. Another example is Corid liquid...used to treat coccidia in cattle, we use it in chickens as well, as you know. There are many other "off label" products that are used in chickens, but technically not approved legally...gotta do what we gotta do. Then again, there's plenty of BYC'ers here that 'breed for resistance' and will cull at the first sign of trouble. In certain instances depending what it is, I cull as well.
     
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  3. BlacksheepCardigans

    BlacksheepCardigans Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks - I really wasn't trying to be snarky. I am just a research nut.

    Speaking of Corid, is anybody looking at using Marquis (Ponazuril) for bad cases? That absolutely revolutionized the dog world - Albon barely works anymore for anything but a mild case of the squirts, Corid is even worse. Ponazuril kills it IMMEDIATELY. One dose and you're done. I know the FDA has a dosage for poultry - anyone using it?
     
  4. chickenzoo

    chickenzoo Emu Hugger

    Never herd of it..... Can you find out some info for us on it?


    As far as Ivomec, it can be given in water BUT - it must be stirred frequently, as it does not dissolve in water and since it is very potent, given by mouth there is the concern it will cause kidney and organ problems, as it is absorbed much more quickly then when applied to the skin. That is why it is mostly used on the skin with small animals.
    Ivomectrian is one of the main medications given to people who have parasite problems that return from other countries;

    Eprix is used just like the pour on. 1/4 cc for bantams, 1/2 cc for adults on bare skin.

    Safeguard - not had it treat tapes, I use equine Zimectrian Gold paste for any tape problems, which luckily I haven't had much of. 1cc per 10lbs of bird in mouth or 3ccs to a gallon of water for 3-5 days.

    I have herd good stuff about Valzaban and know some peafowl people use it.
     
  5. chooniecat

    chooniecat Chillin' With My Peeps

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    well- am i confused or what? NO-I did grasp some of this and vet said to use inj. ivomec(which he sold to me at great cost,this time) which WILL b given with tiny syringes orally so am hoping to use the equine ivermectin with next dosing.(says 1.87% on box)(THATS what I put in their water I believe) which the doc didn't recommend because of dosing confusion. but I can't run to him every time or I will have to get many jobs!by the way, I found gapeworms in a fluff of down feathers but don't know who it came from and chix aren't coughing. I have late molting going on. so he said the ivomec would get that. they had small rounds also.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2010
  6. chickenzoo

    chickenzoo Emu Hugger

    OK, gape worms are found in the mouth. Mites & lice are found in the feathers and on skin......

    - Round worms - treat with Wazine, it only kills round worms, put in water

    - Ivomectrian - injectable, Eprinex pour on, apply either one to bare skin. kills lice , mites, and many types of worms

    - Safeguard - liquid goat wormer is easiest, 3cc per gallon of drinking water 3-5 days or 1cc per 10lbs body weight down throat. Kills most type worms but not lice/mites

    It is best to rotate wormers through out year so parasites do not build up resistance to one type.
     
  7. BlacksheepCardigans

    BlacksheepCardigans Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:If the vet gave you a dosage for injectable ivomec, re-dose with injectable ivomec if you want to save the most money (a bottle of ivomec or the generic is about $20-30 at a feed store and it'll last you years - make sure you buy one with the expiration date way out, because you'll almost certainly be using it for multiple years).

    If you want to switch to the horse ivermectin, CUT THE VET'S DOSE IN HALF. Horse ivermectin is double strength of the injectable stuff. You will still need to give it orally because the appropriate dose is so tiny that you cannot trust that the birds will get it in the water. It's tempting to think that horse ivermectin is even cheaper than ivomec because it's double strength, but the fact that it's a paste means you waste a ton. I can measure out a tenth of a ml of ivomec easily; I cannot do that with paste so I end up trying to "cut" it on my counter like I'm giving the animals cocaine or something. Pain in the neck.

    If you want to use goat safeguard (this is FENBENDAZOLE, not ivermectin), it can be given in water. Safeguard is what I would personally use if the issue was worms, because I KNOW it works. A few studies have shown that ivermectin in chickens is not super effective on worms (it IS very effective on lice/mites).

    Here's how to use Safeguard or Panacur or Tramisol (all basically the same thing - just depends on what you can find at your local feed store) in feed, if you can only find the granules, or Levamisole if you can't find Safeguard:

    ---- from MSU ----

    Fenbendazole Treatments

    One-day Treatment

    1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed

    Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.

    Safeguard is a product of Ralston Purina, and Panacur is a product marketed by American Hoechst. One ounce of medication will treat about 1000 10-oz bobwhite quail. Adjustments of the amounts of medication and feed needed may be necessary depending on the number and size of the birds.

    Three-Day Treatment

    1.2 oz Safeguard or Panacur in 100 lb feed
    -or-
    4 oz pkt of "Worm-A-Rest Litter Pack" (Ralston Purina) in 50 lb feed
    -or-
    5 lb bag of "Worm-A-Rest Mix Pack" in 495 lb feed

    Feed all the medicated feeds free-choice for three consecutive days. The feed mixtures provide 75 ppm fenbendazole. Quail will receive about 1.7 mg/bird each day for adult birds or 2.75 mg/lb of bodyweight.

    Fenbendazole has been shown to be a very effective treatment for eliminating Capillaria (capillary worms), Heterakis (cecal worms), Ascaridia (roundworms), and Syngamus spp. (gapeworms). Toxicity from overdosing with fenbendazole is very remote. Research indicates that amounts up to 100 times the recommended dosages have been given under research conditions without adverse effects to the birds. Use of this product during molt, however, may cause deformity of the emerging feathers.

    Leviamisole Solutions

    52 gram (1.84 oz) pkt Tramisol in 100 gallons water
    -or-
    13 gram (.46 oz) pkt Tramisol in 25 gallons water
    -or-
    52 gram (1.84 oz) pkt in 3 qt water (stock solution)

    Dissolve the 52 gram packet of "Tramisol Cattle and Sheep Wormer" or the 13 gram packet of "Tramisol Sheep Drench Powder" into the appropriate amount of water. If the stock solution is used with a water proportioner, be sure that the stock solution is dispensed at the rate of 1 oz/gallon in the drinking water.

    Any of the solutions are effective at treating Capillaria (capillary worms), Heterakis (cecal worms), and Ascaridia (roundworms). The solutions contain .5 gram of leviamisole per gallon of water. Allow the birds to drink the solution for one day, then remove. In severe cases, the treatment can be repeated every 5-7 days.

    ---- end quote from MSU ---


    As an added note, even if you're in an area with no good feed stores, pet supply stores like Petco or PetSmart will have Safe-Guard or Panacur granules. They're sold in little boxes with a three-day dose inside. You dose your group of chickens as though they are one dog - if you have twenty five-pound chickens, get the 100-lb dose (the effective three-day dose for chickens and dogs is actually close to identical) - and dissolve the packet in enough water for the flock to drink in one day. At that dosage, you should do the three-day treatment, not one day.
     
  8. Miss Lydia

    Miss Lydia Loving this country life Premium Member

    Today I was looking on vitacost for dog wormer since I just noticed round worms in chicken poo and my dogs eat poo anytime they can, I saw safeguard for dogs but it can be very pricey when you have 4 dogs wonder if you could buy the safe guard at the feed store and use it. The only problem would be how to figure dosage.
     
  9. BlacksheepCardigans

    BlacksheepCardigans Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Yes, you can absolutely use any kind of species fenbendazole for dogs. The dosage is 50 mg/kg or 22.7 mg/pound for three days.

    Dogs are likely to have roundworms, but they don't get chicken roundworms. They get their own species. So DO worm, but they didn't get it from the chickens.
     
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  10. chickenzoo

    chickenzoo Emu Hugger

    Marquis (Ponazuril) I saw the price of this in my livestock catalog............ [​IMG] at over $700 bucks, I think it's too pricy for me..... [​IMG]
     

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